Back in the Loop

[RobinTKD]

After some 'technical' problems, I am now finally back online!

Does anyone here get Black Belt magazine? I got my copy through the post the other day (it's shipped from the US so probably takes longer) and it had Master Hee Il Cho on the cover. Inside he takes you through how to do some of the basic kicks properly. Basically showing how a kick is traditionally taught, and how you should actually kick, he was critical of the traditional sidekick chamber with the foot at the knee and kicking. Thing is, how he was illustrating the kicks is how I've seen them done and do them myself anyway, does anyone really use a traditional chamber for the kicks? I may screenshot some of the pages for you all to look through at some point tomorrow.

 

[Instructor]

I had some of his books years ago. Haven't seen anything about him in ages, good to know he is still doing his thing. I think he has a cameo in the original Best of the Best.

 

[bluewaveschool]

He was the coach of the Korean team in the first Best of the Best. And please post some screenshots.

 

[andyjeffries]

Basically showing how a kick is traditionally taught, and how you should actually kick, he was critical of the traditional sidekick chamber with the foot at the knee and kicking. Thing is, how he was illustrating the kicks is how I've seen them done and do them myself anyway, does anyone really use a traditional chamber for the kicks? I may screenshot some of the pages for you all to look through at some point tomorrow.

Please do.

Over the past month or so I've been breaking down sidekicks for students in my classes. Traditionally we've always done it as a 3-stage kick - knee across the body and out to the side but shin vertical, then turn the leg over so the shin is horizontal, then kick out. I've been removing that first step and telling the black belts to teach it to others as a 2-stage, bringing the leg straight to the chambered position. This is the way it's done in "Revolution of Kicking" too, so I don't know how we'd managed to get it to be a 3-stage kick.

It's working well for a much better looking side kick from my students, so I'm wondering if this is what GM Cho is advocating (but it's hard to tell without screenshots).

P.S. I don't get Black Belt magazine

 

[Earl Weiss]

I reviewed the article and here is my take. There is no one "Right" or "best" way to do a "side Kick" although there may certainly be some bad ways.

In the Chang Hon system there are mutliple side kicks including: Piercing, pressing , checking, stamping, pushing, and although not stated as such I would submit smashing as well. They are intended for dfferent purposes and require different methods of execution. Some methods may be better for lead foor versus rear foot, sparring versus breaking. how does the opponent have their guard positioned etc.


Cahng Hon uss footsword outer 1/3 rear edge of the foot for the similar kick although other types such as thrusting use the ball of the foot.
2. Chamber points heel toward target. Good to keep opponent at bay. Harder to get jammed. Easier to move foot in linear motion. Chang Hon ide piercing Chamber puts footsword at support Knee. Allows for more hip extension into the kick but easier to jamb. Body is more upright for defending and attacking with the hands. More uprght body is easier for opponent to attack with hands.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Sorry for the bad spelling in prior post. Computer had a glitch with insert / typeover and can't edit now.

 

[RobinTKD]

Sorry about that guys, here are the scans

 

[ETinCYQX]

The sidekick is ok but I'm not a fan of the roundhouse kick

 

[andyjeffries]

For the side kick, we used to do the "wrong" chamber then move in to the "right" one. I've recently switched teaching students to going straight to the "right" one. So I agree with Grandmaster Cho, this is a conclusion I'd noticed/came to and it's definitely improving my students side kicks.

 

[ETinCYQX]

For the side kick, we used to do the "wrong" chamber then move in to the "right" one. I've recently switched teaching students to going straight to the "right" one. So I agree with Grandmaster Cho, this is a conclusion I'd noticed/came to and it's definitely improving my students side kicks.

I don't really "pause" at that chamber, if that makes sense. That's part of the execution of the kick when I do it, although I just did a sidekick to see and when I fire the leg out it goes into that position right before the thrust out.

 

[msmitht]

Sorry about that guys, here are the scans

Wow. He is not lining up correctly on extention and a poor foot position(pinky toe is above heel). Hips look a little open too.

 

[RobinTKD]

The sidekick is ok but I'm not a fan of the roundhouse kick

I wasn't at first, but I've been trying it out for myself and it works fine, in fact it allows me to kick a little higher, but the return isn't great, you feel that you have to put the foot back down to the rear rather than using the kick to switch stance.

For the side kick, we used to do the "wrong" chamber then move in to the "right" one. I've recently switched teaching students to going straight to the "right" one. So I agree with Grandmaster Cho, this is a conclusion I'd noticed/came to and it's definitely improving my students side kicks.

The thing I've found for myself is that this is how I do a side kick against a pad/board or when sparring, but the traditional chamber is how it's supposedly done in patterns, which is a nightmare because it feels like you're then teaching yourself a wrong kick.

 

[andyjeffries]

The thing I've found for myself is that this is how I do a side kick against a pad/board or when sparring, but the traditional chamber is how it's supposedly done in patterns, which is a nightmare because it feels like you're then teaching yourself a wrong kick.

We're lucky in that we kick the same way for both (except for some black belt patterns where there is a lot of holding yourself in crane stance before side-kicking, so you end up doing it the old way).

 

[RobinTKD]

We're lucky in that we kick the same way for both (except for some black belt patterns where there is a lot of holding yourself in crane stance before side-kicking, so you end up doing it the old way).

We're the opposite way, in all the coloured belt patterns we have to stay in crane stance before executing the kick then its in the Black Belt patterns that we kick without having to hold the chamber.

 

[Earl Weiss]

We're the opposite way, in all the coloured belt patterns we have to stay in crane stance before executing the kick then its in the Black Belt patterns that we kick without having to hold the chamber.

I thought you were a Chang Hon stylist? Am I mistaken?

 

[RobinTKD]

No, you're right Mr Weiss, and i now remember Joon Gun and Yul Gok where the chamber is more like the 'correct' one in the scans.

 

[Earl Weiss]

No, you're right Mr Weiss, and i now remember Joon Gun and Yul Gok where the chamber is more like the 'correct' one in the scans.

"RobinTKD

We're the opposite way, in all the coloured belt patterns we have to stay in crane stance before executing the kick then its in the Black Belt patterns that we kick without having to hold the chamber."

I questioned it because:
A. There is no "Crane Stance in the Chang Hon system; and
B. The chamber for the side piercing kick (as opposed to other types in the system.) facilitates the rotation of the foot sword surface in a fashion similar to how a fist and knuckles rotate on a traditional punch both having the same effect for attacking a more fluid body surface in order to cause greater internal hemorrage. For something like board breaking or a hard surface the rotation is irrelevant.

​

 

[bluewaveschool]

I don't remember that stance in any Chang Hon form I've done...

 

[Earl Weiss]

I am guessing it is a misnomer for "Bending Ready Stance A"

 

[bluewaveschool]

I am guessing it is a misnomer for "Bending Ready Stance A"

*checks google image search* I've never seen that stance. When is it done?