ATACX GYM
2nd Black Belt
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- Feb 15, 2011
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I don't think anyone trained would ever leave his right arm out exposed to let you work that counter. That's a rookie move. Makes it too easy to either attack the arm or get a deep undertook to sweep or take the back from the bottom.
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That ain't Judo. It's overly convoluted. It's not self defence if it's sparring. It's not self defence if you're relying on a gi. It's not Judo when you follow none of the tactics, strategies, or mechanics of Judo. It's not "real life" if it's in sparring.
Honestly? It's messy and very low return. You may have managed to stumble into it with one person once, but to then equate that to "self defence" and teach/demonstrate it as such is just completely out of whack with reality.
I disagree with all of the foregoing.
Precisely how is what I did proof that it "ain't Judo" and precisely how did I not follow any Judo tactics, strategies or mechanics? Exactly precisely what are you basing this opinion of yours on?
Exactly how does using a gi prevent self-defense application?
Lastly, this was not a demonstration of a specific scripted technique. It was an answer to a question as to how I managed to pull this off several times against other striker-grapplers.
Exactly how do you define sparring, and how do you define self defence and how do these two definitions lack carryover?
What you did is proof that it isn't Judo because, well, it isn't Judo. It's a mish-mash of different things that you've cobbled together, but there isn't any Judo there. And I'm basing this on having an understanding of what Judo is.
The gi provides grips and openings for techniques that are not present in "street clothes". The way you're using it just isn't possible for you to try to pull off the same thing against, say, a t-shirt. Due to that very different context, this isn't a self defence technique.
The gi provides grips and openings for techniques that are not present in "street clothes". The way you're using it just isn't possible for you to try to pull off the same thing against, say, a t-shirt. Due to that very different context, this isn't a self defence technique.
My issue isn't how it came about, it's that you've labelled it as "self defence", and are therefore demonstrating it as such in this clip, as well as labeling it "Judo" when it clearly isn't.
We're getting back to "what is sparring", are we? Okay... sparring is a training device in which two or more practitioners attempt to out-perform each other, typically within the confines of overt or implied rulesets, and within similar skillsets. Self defence has none of that. The issue with having sparring as self defence training is that it teaches the opposite of what you actually want to impart, tactically speaking.
I disagree with all of the foregoing.
Precisely how is what I did proof that it "ain't Judo" and precisely how did I not follow any Judo tactics, strategies or mechanics? Exactly precisely what are you basing this opinion of yours on?
Maximum effenciency, minimum effort. Ever heard of this concept?
Exactly how does using a gi prevent self-defense application?
Lastly, this was not a demonstration of a specific scripted technique. It was an answer to a question as to how I managed to pull this off several times against other striker-grapplers.
If this was not a specific scripted technique, why do you keep referring to how you did this, and he did that? If you are explaining how you manage to pull something off, and that is what you are demonstrating, it is scripted.
Exactly how do you define sparring, and how do you define self defence and how do these two definitions lack carryover?
Ex
From the point where you're taken to the ground to about 2:10, he is inexplicably leaving his arm exposed for no reason. You mention a tiger claw or hammer fist, but I don't see how.Thank you. Is there a time stamp or whatever demonstrating the position that you're referring to?
At around the 2.10 mark in the video, you have opened up your cousin's collar with your right hand, and inserted your left hand inside the collar, with your left forearm against your cousin's neck. As a "judo" application, why would you let go of the collar with your left hand to wrap a figure 4 onto your cousin's arm? Maximum effeiency,minimum effort. Rather than give up that grip, a judoka would be more inclined to switch the grip of the right hand to the other collar, pulling down and out with both arms, rapidly choking him out and negating the possibility of the push you were so concerned about you gave up that grip.
I'm sure you will say that this is just in the sport version of judo, but there are no neck cranks in judo. At around 3.35, you have managed to get another choke going, but rather than finish it there, after your speech, you explain how you continued to roll up into a kneeling position. You have a solid choke going, why the continued roll? Maximum effiency, minimum effort. Violated again.
Need to ask this. At around 4.10 mark, you say you are concerned for your cousin, so you let him go, but not the guy you did this to for real because he knows how to tap? Your cousin is wearing a black belt in the video, you introduce him as an assisant coach in your gym, and you seem concerned that your cousin doesn't know when to tap? I'm going to ask the question Kong soo do loves so much, who is his instructor?
By 1925 all joint-locks except elbow locks were totally prohibited together with neck cranks. Kosen rules being the Kodokan rules derivative did not allow leg-locks absolutely).
http://judoforum.com/index.php?/topic/18653-difference-kodokan-and-kosen/Kosen Judo is Kodokan Judo.
Ok one more time there is no different styles of Judo there is only one style of Judo Kodokan. One more time, THERE IS ONLY ONE STYLE OF JUDO KODOKAN.
I don't have a black belt in any art, but I have been doing judo for a while in conjunction with karate, so I'll go ahead and give my input.
oaktree is correct--Kosen is a ruleset that a collection of schools adopted in Japan, but it was still Kodokan judo. Judo, as a martial art, does include leg locks and neck cranks, but they are no longer practiced by most judoka because they are illegal in competition. My first judo instructor (also my karate instructor) learned judo from someone who included those techniques because the person he learned from passed them on, etc.
This video demonstrates what appears to be kuzure jigoku-jime, or a modified hell choke. Jigoku-jime is in judo and is normally done from a back mounted crucifix position, whereas he is in a guard position applying a similar (not the same--there are certainly big differences) concept of isolating the arms, grabbing the lapel and using the leg to push his opponent into the choke. The entire explanation of the setup was unnecessary and detracts from the actual technique that was being demonstrated because you make it appear to require a specific set of conditions, whereas you could simply throw this up from guard in a number of situations. That said, your technique has a major, and I do mean MAJOR, flaw in that you never actually isolated BOTH arms--all he had to do to relieve the pressure from the choke and escape was push your leg off the back of his head.
As for what you did being judo...well...it was sort of judo.
I think we call that a bow and arrow...I don't have a black belt in any art, but I have been doing judo for a while in conjunction with karate, so I'll go ahead and give my input.
oaktree is correct--Kosen is a ruleset that a collection of schools adopted in Japan, but it was still Kodokan judo. Judo, as a martial art, does include leg locks and neck cranks, but they are no longer practiced by most judoka because they are illegal in competition. My first judo instructor (also my karate instructor) learned judo from someone who included those techniques because the person he learned from passed them on, etc.
This video demonstrates what appears to be kuzure jigoku-jime, or a modified hell choke. Jigoku-jime is in judo and is normally done from a back mounted crucifix position, whereas he is in a guard position applying a similar (not the same--there are certainly big differences) concept of isolating the arms, grabbing the lapel and using the leg to push his opponent into the choke. The entire explanation of the setup was unnecessary and detracts from the actual technique that was being demonstrated because you make it appear to require a specific set of conditions, whereas you could simply throw this up from guard in a number of situations. That said, your technique has a major, and I do mean MAJOR, flaw in that you never actually isolated BOTH arms--all he had to do to relieve the pressure from the choke and escape was push your leg off the back of his head.
As for what you did being judo...well...it was sort of judo.
At the 2:10 mark, my cousin simply broke the hold by using the "punch-push grip" therefore I could even attempt the X-choke or lapel choke you referred to. I didn't release the hold, he BROKE the hold before I could secure it. That happens during training. Kano's Maximum efficiency, minimum effort maxim is NOT violated.