Your a little light on your history.
I'm sure. I'm relatively young in Taekwondo and am probably as biased from my Kukkiwon standpoint as you are from your ITF standpoint so I'll see the information that bolsters my point and ignore the rest. Of course I try not to, but I am human
With regard to the infamous newspaper ad by GM Son who was really pissed at General Choi because so many Chung Do Kwan Luminaries left him and followed General Choi, why don't you tell us:
1. Who else did the ad say was booted from the Chung Do Kwan.
HYUN Jong Myung, UHM Woon Kyu, NAM Tae Hi
However, regardless of being kicked out of CDK, my point was that Gen Choi's rank was honourary and revoked. Regardless of Son's authority to decide who is the head or even a member of CDK, he signed the honourary certificate (rather than promoting Gen Choi in the normal way) and he cancelled it.
2. What happened to those other two Chung Do Kwan members shortly thereafter?
You tell me. It seems that at the 1961 Unification Conference that UHM Woon Kyu was a representative of the Chung Do Kwan again.
3. What happened to GM Son shortly thereafter.
Good question, I do not know the answer so hopefully you will reply and fill me in - I'm guessing he fell from grace with the CDK. However, that does not detract from the certificate he signed being revoked.
Your history about GM Nam's role is accurate in that he was the Hands on instructor. But, he spent time with General Choi refining what was to be taught and then he taught it. Why did he teach directly isntead of General Choi? Because it was not what a General would do. Involve himself with the enlisted men that way. How do I know? I asked GM Nam that question and that is what he told me. Where did you get your misstatement of history from?
From "A Modern History of Taekwondo" and various conversations over the years. I understand your source is closer to the issue, however that doesn't mean that his position is less biased - I mean of course he would stick to his guns that Gen Choi founded the art.
Also, if you were coming up with a reason retrospectively of a reason why he didn't teach - is that not a convenient reason (even though he went on to teach a lot)?
What did General Choi do. Read "a Killing art" for some interesting history.
I understood that some senior Kukki-Taekwondo masters had already discredited the version of history presented in that book, although I haven't read it myself yet. The author of the book is quoted as saying "many men created and founded Tae Kwon Do, as I show in my book, A Killing Art".
Gen Choi being a senior man in the military was important in the Korean culture and promoting a Korean Martial Art, but I see him as someone who helped make the art famous by lending his name/voice - not someone with the technical ability to develop the art.
Alex's argument for considering Gen Choi the "main founder" are apparently:
1) He and GM Nam came up with the name - but there is also hearsay that GM Son passed it to him on a bit of paper for him to announce
2) He sent instructors out to promote TKD internationally
3) He founded the ITF - Alex argues that this was 7 years before the WTF so that's important, however the founding of the ITF was a step on the road to globalisation of Taekwondo, however is it really the most important one?
4) He wrote books about TKD
5) He created the techniques
Of the reasons 1-4 are in keeping with his position as a political figurehead or public face of the art, only reason 5 is the one that defines his technical ability and even then - given that he only had an honourary grade in TKD what gave him the ability to create the techniques rather than document those existing ones? Particularly when most of the movements have history in other arts anyway.
Sure, he came up with some patterns for the ITF, but hey, I could create some patterns. No one would do them, but if I was a political figurehead of an international organisation then I could rally some people to do them. That's not creating the techniques or defining the art.
But a synopsis would be: Headed the 29th infantry division recruiting top martial art Talent, training them in a new single system that could be taught on a wide scale, training them as instructors.
Hang on, did he train them? I thought you said earlier that he trained GM Nam who then did the training? If so, we only have GM Nam's statement that it was the case - how do we know that GM Nam wasn't the real technical basis and Gen Choi was the public face, but that GM Nam is not just being typically asian in wanting to save face for someone he considers his senior?
Used government and military resources to travel for demonstrations to impress and recruit students.
How much did he travel and demonstrate? Was that not his group of Oh Do Kwan/ITF instructors that he sent out? I'm sure he used the resources to do this, again consistent with the viewpoint that he was a political figurehead/public face to the art.
Used the same resources to dispatch instructors. Used the same resources to recruit other instructors such as Jhoon Rhee.
Jhoon Rhee graduated from the Chungdokwan under LEE Won Kuk. He is then attributed to training under GM NAM. Again, this shows that while Gen Choi may have "recruit"ed him, that may be as in used his political power to bring him to the organisation where he was trained by someone technical.
From the late 1950's or so to 1973 or so if you were doing Tae Kwon Do, it was 90+% likely you were doing General Choi's system. Other Korean systems and heads tended to reject the name and system until it became so wildly popular they decided to capitalize on the use of the name.
As I wasn't born until 1974 I can't argue from personal experience. However, from my understanding of the history I do agree outside of Korea. There were a number of competing non-unified kwans in operation until 1960. Then they unified under a single martial art, named Taekwondo (because Gen Choi pushed the name and was made the president of the KTA, again not inconsistent with being a political figurehead - given the longest reigning head of the KTA was Dr Kim, Un Yong who is also not a senior Taekwondoin). It then changed name to Taesoodo before becoming Taekwondo again when Gen Choi was made president again and reforced the name change to the one he preferred. So I agree on the rejecting the name part.
Gen Choi also used military and government resources (as you stated) to send instructors of his system abroad (resources that most Kwan leaders would not have had) so I agree outside of Korea, you most likely were doing General Choi's system.
However, inside Korea I'm not so sure this is the case (and I don't know if we'll ever have facts to argue this one properly).
Even after 1973 many Dojangs with the WTF flag on the wall used Gneral Choi's system (Trained at one from 1975-1977) because that was what most instructors recruited by the KKW knew.
Again though this isn't surprising. Assuming you're talking outside of Korea, most of the instructors internationally based would have been following Gen Choi/GM Nam's system and when they switched they would continue to teach what they knew (at least for a while until the Kukkiwon changes everyone to the same standard - this is still happening now). This isn't surprising, is it?
What you've written though is not at all inconsistent with my belief that Gen Choi was a very important person in Taekwondo's history, but not from a technical point of view but as a political figurehead/public face.
It depends what you mean by "founding the art"? I accepted (in that post a few back) that he named it and publicised it - but I have yet to hear evidence of his superior technical ability and therefore believe that most people should not consider him in their technical lineage.
(By the way this is all written in a happy tone - I enjoy/love a good debate and am not trying to hurt people, just to argue/debate with other people so I learn more and either change or solidify my opinions)
