Animal Techniques, Are They A Waste?
- Thread starter Mei Hua
- Start date
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Tibetan White Crane hits like a sledgehammer. in it's own way it can be more effective than "modern" methods. It just takes longer to develop.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
There are an awful lot of animal techniques in CMA that are part of many styles.
Click the link below and pick a style any style and likely it has animal forms and many are incredibly effective. So if you are asking about a specific style you will need to clarify.
http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-chinese-martial-arts
I would guess if you got hit by one of Xingyi 12 Animal style you would think it was very effective.
If you found yourself up against a Southern Mantis person I would also venture you would find it was incredibly effective and although they are not the same style Northern mantis is very effective as well.
White crane yup its effective.
Even Xingyi 5 elements have postures with animal names for descriptive purposes in it and that to is very effective.
There are postures in Tai Chi that also have animal names
So is your question directed al all Chinese styles or specific styles?
Click the link below and pick a style any style and likely it has animal forms and many are incredibly effective. So if you are asking about a specific style you will need to clarify.
http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-chinese-martial-arts
I would guess if you got hit by one of Xingyi 12 Animal style you would think it was very effective.
If you found yourself up against a Southern Mantis person I would also venture you would find it was incredibly effective and although they are not the same style Northern mantis is very effective as well.
White crane yup its effective.
Even Xingyi 5 elements have postures with animal names for descriptive purposes in it and that to is very effective.
There are postures in Tai Chi that also have animal names
So is your question directed al all Chinese styles or specific styles?
OP
OP
Mei Hua
Orange Belt
Any style in general.
Personally I think that they are useful, I'm mainly a Snake practitioner as Animals go and find it, it's techniques/strategy/philosophy to be of great use in many situations.
Just did a fight last night where I used many of the things from Snake and won with them.
So, I'm just curious as to different perspectives on the subject as it's often a heated topic among various people and styles, including MMA
Personally I think that they are useful, I'm mainly a Snake practitioner as Animals go and find it, it's techniques/strategy/philosophy to be of great use in many situations.
Just did a fight last night where I used many of the things from Snake and won with them.
So, I'm just curious as to different perspectives on the subject as it's often a heated topic among various people and styles, including MMA
I think animal techniques used in the mindset of "becoming" the animal, or used simply for the sake of looking/acting/sounding or in any other way being like the animal are a huge mistake. Techniques based upon animlas are fine if you understand what they are meant for, not trying to act like the animal but actually using the principle behind it. I believe the animal technqiues are really more of an object lesson to help you understand how to perform the technique rather than trying to look like or act like the animal....and I'm a mantis person!
7sm
7sm
There is a story that Tai Chi was invented when someone watched a snake fighting a crane. While this story is more allegory and probably not based on truth, it does get across the intention behind many of the movements within Tai Chi.
Many of the moves in Tai Chi are also named after animals. Repulse monkey, snake creeps down, white stork spreads wings, grasp birds tail, carry tiger to mountain, turn to sweep lotus, parting wild horses maine, and on and on. These are all very effective when used correctly.
Many of the moves in Tai Chi are also named after animals. Repulse monkey, snake creeps down, white stork spreads wings, grasp birds tail, carry tiger to mountain, turn to sweep lotus, parting wild horses maine, and on and on. These are all very effective when used correctly.
I agree. I think animal techniques are based on the principles behind the animal it represents and are very effective when trained that way. Do people really train in the mindset of "becoming" the animal? That's just weird.
Anyway, I think animal techniques originate from observances of the animals they represent and how the animal attacks or defends itself. For instance, observing a crane keep a buffalo (a much larger opponent) away from it's territory by consistently "pecking" the buffalo on it's sensitive nose. This was something my former Sifu observed on a nature show. The buffalo left, the smaller, delicate crane won. So, a "crane beak" can be used to jab the sensitive spots on an opponent. Classic example in the Kill Bill movie (I love those movies, Beatrix Kiddo is my hero
) where Beatrix Kiddo uses a crane beak to pluck the eye out of her opponent. My former style was a 5 animal style. Now I'm training Jook Lum southern mantis. I find it to be an extremely effective style.
My question is would there be any CMA styles if there had not been animal techniques in the beginning.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Answer: Yes, there is much more to CMA than animal forms, styles and names
Now if you asked if there were no animal forms would there be Shaolin styles then possibly not, but I am not sure. Many of the styles from Shaolin are based on animals. But there is a dragon style supposedly based on the mythical Chinese dragon so I have to wonder where that came from.
One of the oldest styles is Shuaijiao - Chinese Wrestling was pre-animal styles.
Other CMA styles are also based on the 5 elements as well, particularly those of Taoist origin. And many of the names of postures in those CMA styles have animal names because they look like the animal. They did not see the animal and then design the style after that. The posture (I believe it is) Leopard climbs a tree in xingyi 5 elements was called that for descriptive reasons. And some of the names for CMA postures are metaphors, "Buddha's attendant ponds mortar" for example.
I also do not subscribe to the theory that Chang San-feng invented Tai Chi after watching a fight between a bird and a snake either. I do believe it is possible that he came up with something similar to the 13 postures, which became part of tai chi or the basis of Tai chi but there was allegedly something called Taijigong prior to Chang San-feng, but this would be stuff for another post.
profesormental
Brown Belt
Greetings.
Animal styles and names are mainly used to describe human movement.
It is easier and more compact to communicate using metaphors than to explain the positions piece by piece.
They are as mentioned before, used to train certain aspects of the warrior mentality and physical attributes.
In that they are effective.
You just have to be careful not to emphasize movements that are hard to apply in actual situations.
For this, you need a good verification method to know the difference, and this is very much accelerated with qualified instruction.
So all in all, the animal techniques are quite useful, if you remember that they are just metaphors for how a human moves, and that realistic applications that are available in a confrontation are most important if they are to be used in combat situations...
for show, it doesn't matter that much.
Sincerely,
Juan M. Mercado
Animal styles and names are mainly used to describe human movement.
It is easier and more compact to communicate using metaphors than to explain the positions piece by piece.
They are as mentioned before, used to train certain aspects of the warrior mentality and physical attributes.
In that they are effective.
You just have to be careful not to emphasize movements that are hard to apply in actual situations.
For this, you need a good verification method to know the difference, and this is very much accelerated with qualified instruction.
So all in all, the animal techniques are quite useful, if you remember that they are just metaphors for how a human moves, and that realistic applications that are available in a confrontation are most important if they are to be used in combat situations...
for show, it doesn't matter that much.
Sincerely,
Juan M. Mercado
Hung-Ga is a Southern Shaolin 5 Animal system. It's effectiveness has stood the test of time. Just like any other good martial art with solid principles & philosophy - train it hard, train it right & it will be there for you when needed.
bushidomartialarts
Senior Master
one thing to keep in mind with lots of the kung fu styles is their roots are in an exercise system. some of the stances and motions, while potentially effective, are also there provide a workout -- build strength, endurance, range of motion.
another is that as they evolved, they were often developed for use in combat against another trained opponent. ever try an advanced chess gambit on somebody new to the game? doesn't work, the noob is too unpredictable.
i have great respect for kung fu, but sometimes it can be....inefficient. there are concepts and motions withing the animal systems that can be deadly effective. and there are also motions and stances that cost valuable seconds.
just my 2.5 cents canadian.
another is that as they evolved, they were often developed for use in combat against another trained opponent. ever try an advanced chess gambit on somebody new to the game? doesn't work, the noob is too unpredictable.
i have great respect for kung fu, but sometimes it can be....inefficient. there are concepts and motions withing the animal systems that can be deadly effective. and there are also motions and stances that cost valuable seconds.
just my 2.5 cents canadian.
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