An idea for a possible partial solution to our gas troubles

[mrhnau]

Bob,

Elements of that are not too bad. I personally don't like the idea of the government giving me a choice of cars to choose from, but if I sincerely like them, then it might be a viable option.

I'd much rather see this come in the form of serious tax breaks depending on your vehicle of choice.. perhaps some kind of clever percentage of your tax credit based on your fuel economy...

1000 * ( MPG - 25 )

or something like that... your tax credit (not deduction) goes way up.. and perhaps make this work for all vehicles, so that you get a tax penalty for gas guzzlers (MPG - 25 is negative, you pay more tax). I imagine if you get a cheap enough car that costs very little, effectively the government would pay for your car! The numbers would need to be adjusted, of course... but its a thought.

 

[tellner]

Bob, you're stealing Amory Lovins' and Ralph Naders' lines from thirty years ago.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Bob, you're stealing Amory Lovins' and Ralph Naders' lines from thirty years ago.

I never said I was original.

Bob,

Elements of that are not too bad. I personally don't like the idea of the government giving me a choice of cars to choose from, but if I sincerely like them, then it might be a viable option.

It all depends on how things are ****ed up by the politics. In my idea, it's a simple system. -Any- hybrids that are 35MPG or greater, regardless of manufacturer would be acceptable. That can be further modified to be any vehicle period that does 35 MPG or greater, thereby expanding selection. It would not include a Hummer, or any other gas chugger, as the idea is to reduce fuel use, not just give someone a free car.

I'd much rather see this come in the form of serious tax breaks depending on your vehicle of choice.. perhaps some kind of clever percentage of your tax credit based on your fuel economy...

1000 * ( MPG - 25 )

or something like that... your tax credit (not deduction) goes way up.. and perhaps make this work for all vehicles, so that you get a tax penalty for gas guzzlers (MPG - 25 is negative, you pay more tax). I imagine if you get a cheap enough car that costs very little, effectively the government would pay for your car! The numbers would need to be adjusted, of course... but its a thought.

Too much math, the politics would screw it up, IMO.

Gee, Bob, you'd give us the choice? How generous. Here in California, we supposedly have the choice of what electric utility to buy our power from. The thing is, there is only PG&E in Fresno county, and even IF you chose to buy your power from SCE (So Cal Edison) you would have to pay a "transmission" fee for their power to come through PG&E's lines. There is a choice, but, there really isn't.

That's the politics ****ing it up. We have the same 'choice' here...I get the calls from the jerk wads at Accent Energy a few times a week. See above for my "choice" though. My idea really does give you one. Congress...well, they might have to tack on a few "perks" for themselves to screw it up though.

 

[Ceicei]

My only question as a bone fide petrol-head, is:

"Will classics be exempt from this ruling?"

If you have some American equivalent of a Chav who just happens to inherit a C1 Corvette, will he be prohibited from getting that destroyed so that he can have a new Prius (shortly followed by his being beheaded by me for perpetrating the myth that Prius's are environmentally friendly)?

My follow up question as an environmentally minded person is that why is it that the fact that hybrid vehicles are more polluting in the long-term rather than less not being given proper media attention (it's to do with the batteries rather than emmsions)?

How many people actually own classics?

Would we also be given the option of converting our classics into hybrids (retaining much of everything except overhauling to handle the type of fuel)?

On the other hand, sometimes the solution brings up a whole other set of problems (such as the pollution you mentioned).

- Ceicei

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

What's that add up to?
If 1 mere 700,000 vehicles getting 15 MPG were repaced with ones getting 45 MPG, it would save US consumers 373.1 Million gallons of gas, for a cash savings of 1.3 Billion dollars each year (if gas is $3.50/gal).

You do realize that would only save us the equivalent of 10 days per year of gas consumption, at the current U.S. rate of gasoline consumption.

The United States accounts for about 44 percent of the world’s gasoline consumption. In 2003 The United States of America consumed 476,474,000,000 litres (476.474 gigalitres), which equates to about 360 million US liquid gallons (1.36 gigalitres) of gasoline each day. The U.S. used about 510 billion litres (138 billion gallons) of gasoline in 2006, of which 5.6% was mid-grade and 9.5% was premium grade.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Usage_and_pricing

 

[Bob Hubbard]

True. The goal is however less saving gas, and more saving "we the people" money. It is also a starting point to hopefully larger savings. Keep in mind, I'm targeting something like .5-1% of cars on the road here. Part of the other intent is to drive down the production costs of hybrid tech, improve it's efficiency and such, so that it can become more mainstreme. Also, older cars would be recycled, and older less-safe and less-efficient vehicles replaced with safer ones, with possible additional savings in the form of lower car insurances for drivers.

 

[Tez3]

I don't know how it works for you guys but years ago here we had a brilliant public transport system, cars weren't used for going to work/school or for short trips. There were buses to everywhere, we had trains too to most places, sure we moaned about British Rail but oh dear things got so much worse when the Tories decided to de-privatise the transport systems. Now it's difficult to rely on public transport or it's so expensive people use their cars everywhere. We even have congestion charges in two cities London and Durham.
Freight used to go by train now it goes by road clogging up our motorways and pushing the price of food and other goods up due to the extortionate price of fuel. Taking a train anywhere now is an expensive and time consuming business, it used to be cheap and quick as it still is in the rest of Europe where the train networks are subsidised by the governments.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

I don't know how it works for you guys but years ago here we had a brilliant public transport system, cars weren't used for going to work/school or for short trips. There were buses to everywhere, we had trains too to most places, sure we moaned about British Rail but oh dear things got so much worse when the Tories decided to de-privatise the transport systems. Now it's difficult to rely on public transport or it's so expensive people use their cars everywhere. We even have congestion charges in two cities London and Durham.
Freight used to go by train now it goes by road clogging up our motorways and pushing the price of food and other goods up due to the extortionate price of fuel. Taking a train anywhere now is an expensive and time consuming business, it used to be cheap and quick as it still is in the rest of Europe where the train networks are subsidised by the governments.

Sadly very true.

Durham too now? :xtrmshock.

They should try Aberdeen or Portsmouth! They're the two worst places I've seen apart from London. If I never had to drive again it'd be too soon.

 

[jks9199]

I don't know how it works for you guys but years ago here we had a brilliant public transport system, cars weren't used for going to work/school or for short trips. There were buses to everywhere, we had trains too to most places, sure we moaned about British Rail but oh dear things got so much worse when the Tories decided to de-privatise the transport systems. Now it's difficult to rely on public transport or it's so expensive people use their cars everywhere. We even have congestion charges in two cities London and Durham.
Freight used to go by train now it goes by road clogging up our motorways and pushing the price of food and other goods up due to the extortionate price of fuel. Taking a train anywhere now is an expensive and time consuming business, it used to be cheap and quick as it still is in the rest of Europe where the train networks are subsidised by the governments.

Unfortunately, much of the US is not served by an effective public transit system. For example, in the area around Washington DC, we have the very good Metro system -- except it was designed and built in an era where the daily work traffic was heavily moving from the suburbs into DC, and back out at the end of the day. So the system was set up to facillitate that -- not the movement around and within the suburbs that is a major factor today. The system is also aging, and being reaching capacity limits, while the funding jurisdictions are becoming less willing to subsidize the system as their own budgets get tighter. Efforts to encourage carpooling also run into practical obstacles, like work days that are getting longer and less predictable.

And then there's the side issue that US culture has built itself around cars... We've pretty much designed many of our communities for cars, not people. (There are quite a few communities that don't even include sidewalks or other pedestrian pathways!)

 

[Cryozombie]

Could I just get a nice, high gas mileage Motorcycle instead of a Hybrid?

I'd be in if that were the case.

 

[mrhnau]

How many people actually own classics?

Define classics if you count ones that are in the process of being fixed, I'd have a few... will they get fixed? thats another question! hehe