Aikido against a boxer

Martial D

Senior Master
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
3,407
Reaction score
1,156
Nikkyo

I shall await you picking this apart




Pick what apart? This is a slow motion cooperative drill. Literally everything works when the guy cooperates.

Let's see it in real-time against someone fighting back.
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
29,968
Reaction score
10,524
Location
Hendersonville, NC
For the last time mate, and this time I mean it, you are making no sense whatsoever and it's because you are not even trying to make!
Who's gonna judge such a holistic art as Aikido and claim that it has no useful foundation?? The.....invulnerable boxer??
I'm soooo out of here, like, for good.
He hasn't claimed boxers are invulnerable. But they are among the most compact fighters, and their punches are fast. That presents a specific problem for aiki arts.
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
29,968
Reaction score
10,524
Location
Hendersonville, NC
also students change to some because Aikido is marketed the way it is think it passive and non aggressive and they see all the big throws and it impresses them and they trot along. Very few actually even consider the martial side
And this - and some will disagree with me - is a good fit. If the folks participating don't really care about the martial side, then ditch the atemi and the "hard" throws. Focus on the cerebral and attractive stuff, and spend all your time only on flow. That stuff's fun and can be studied a lifetime if it's done right, and everybody's happy. There's only a problem with that approach if someone is trying to use it (exclusively) to develop fighting/defensive skills.
 

now disabled

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
1,443
Reaction score
200
And this - and some will disagree with me - is a good fit. If the folks participating don't really care about the martial side, then ditch the atemi and the "hard" throws. Focus on the cerebral and attractive stuff, and spend all your time only on flow. That stuff's fun and can be studied a lifetime if it's done right, and everybody's happy. There's only a problem with that approach if someone is trying to use it (exclusively) to develop fighting/defensive skills.

I have no issue with that at all as each has his or her own path
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
23,337
Reaction score
8,070
He hasn't claimed boxers are invulnerable. But they are among the most compact fighters, and their punches are fast. That presents a specific problem for aiki arts.

They own a range in which they are safe. The tank analogy was pretty good. It is your job to get through that range. All they have to do is keep that range.

Ever fought a tall guy? Same thing.
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
29,968
Reaction score
10,524
Location
Hendersonville, NC
They own a range in which they are safe. The tank analogy was pretty good. It is your job to get through that range. All they have to do is keep that range.

Ever fought a tall guy? Same thing.
Tall guy is a great analogy. Works better I striking, but applies somewhat in stand-up grappling too.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
14,041
Reaction score
4,487
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
Can someone answer me this simple question?

Do Aikido guys ever test their MA skill against people form different MA systems?

When my Aikido friend Armando Flores and I competed in Austin local Karate tournament, the week after, Armando was kicked out of his Aikido Association. Even today, we still don't know why?
 

now disabled

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
1,443
Reaction score
200
T
Can someone answer me this simple question?

Do Aikido guys ever test their MA skill against people form different MA systems?

When my Aikido friend Armando Flores and I competed in Austin local Karate tournament, the week after, Armando was kicked out of his Aikido Association. Even today, we still don't know why?


There is only one form of Aikido that has competition and that is Tomiki (a deshi of Ueshiba it did cause some issues between Tomiki and the Aikikai ). Are you saying he was kicked out because of him competing?
 

now disabled

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
1,443
Reaction score
200
Yes! That was back in 1976. Not sure the policy has been changed since then or not.

Hmmmm I have no clue at all

All I can say is in a Karate Tournament then if your using Karate skills which I assume the rules would dictate then you and your friend were Karateka and nothing to do with Aikido thereby where is the issue ?

The only thing I can think of is and was your friend taking his Karate into the Aikido dojo and trying to start competition there or indeed just trying to start competition in Aikido as if it was and I assume his style was not Tomiki then that may have been the reason. As I said the only style of Aikido (derived and from Ueshiba's Aikido ) that has competition is Tomiki and well it is a thing well well known that Aikido is not promoted as a competitive art and it is frowned on.
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
29,968
Reaction score
10,524
Location
Hendersonville, NC
Can someone answer me this simple question?

Do Aikido guys ever test their MA skill against people form different MA systems?

When my Aikido friend Armando Flores and I competed in Austin local Karate tournament, the week after, Armando was kicked out of his Aikido Association. Even today, we still don't know why?
The answer, like other arts, is it varies by individual. Many do not. Some do.

I know some folks in Aikido who are deep into the philosophy of peace and would be bothered by a student competing - a very closed-minded view of competition. I know others in Aikido who have no issue with it.
 

now disabled

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
1,443
Reaction score
200
For the American Aikidoka who might not have seen these two in their prime














 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
14,041
Reaction score
4,487
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
As I said the only style of Aikido (derived and from Ueshiba's Aikido ) that has competition is Tomiki and well it is a thing well well known that Aikido is not promoted as a competitive art and it is frowned on.
If a MA style doesn't compete with other MA systems, and also doesn't compete within it's own system, there is some missing training there.

No matter how much partner training that you may have, you still need to test it. I have seen people who has trained the wrestling art for 6 years. On the mat, he still doesn't know how to use his hip throw.

- In partner training, your opponent will give you that opportunity.
- In sparring, your opponent won't give you that opportunity.
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
23,337
Reaction score
8,070
The answer, like other arts, is it varies by individual. Many do not. Some do.

I know some folks in Aikido who are deep into the philosophy of peace and would be bothered by a student competing - a very closed-minded view of competition. I know others in Aikido who have no issue with it.

How is that view inconsistent with competing?

I mean a BJJ is a pretty cruisey event.
 

Martial D

Senior Master
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
3,407
Reaction score
1,156
If a MA style doesn't compete with other MA systems, and also doesn't compete within it's own system, there is some missing training there.

No matter how much partner training that you may have, you still need to test it. I have seen people who has trained the wrestling art for 6 years. On the mat, he still doesn't know how to use his hip throw.

- In partner training, your opponent will give you that opportunity.
- In sparring, your opponent won't give you that opportunity.
Exactly this. Alive training teaches you to make your own opportunities. It doesn't matter what you train; if everything you do requires a cooperative partner, you won't have the first idea what to do when he isn't.
 

Latest Discussions

Top