Advice for hard punching with minimal padding, and still avoid ripping knuckle skin?

[isshinryuronin]

I know when I use boxing gloves, I have to use extra effort to maintain a correct fist structure when using boxing gloves without wraps.

I was going to mention this but forgot to add it in my post. Glad you brought it up. You can't clench your fist as completely in a glove as you can barehanded, thus weakening the hand structure as you say and requiring wrapping. Another example of the differences between arts, calling for different methods.

In fact, it may be that a boxer who finds himself in a fight barehanded has a greater chance of hurting his hand than a karate guy who has trained without relying on wraps for support.

great example of talking down to posters here with a long winded analysis.

Although by nature I'm a very casual and informal guy, my writing tends to be formal, perhaps a product of being educated in the 1960's. I try to be succinct yet take the time to logically support my statements rather than just saying this or that is true. Asking "why?" something is done a certain way and working thru an analysis of where the answers lead brings new realizations and understanding for me, sometimes even while I'm typing a post. As seen in this thread, for example, there are many reasons why not all striking arts regularly use wraps that seems quite logical if we take some time to look deeper into the issue without blinders on. As a "ronin" for many years this method has helped in my self-study of the art.

 

[JowGaWolf]

In fact, it may be that a boxer who finds himself in a fight barehanded has a greater chance of hurting his hand than a karate guy who has trained without relying on wraps for support.

I think this is true for a variety of reasons. For starters, punching without gloves makes it really easy to understand what not to punch. So, from an earlier start, martial artists are going to be very specific with their punch placements. And if the martial artist is going to hit something hard then they will use a different part of the fist to do so. We are also less likely to strike with more power than our fist can withstand. By training without gloves, we already know the limits.

Those who punch with gloves on aren't as in-tuned with the limits. I see this in the gym often. I punch the heavy bag hard, then someone who has the gloves on tries the same thing and they end up getting hurt. It's always the thing. People who swipe their punches have similar problems.

I know things like the Makiwara board doesn't won't make sense until they hit things like bodies and heavy bags.

CoPilot:

Benefits of Makiwara Training​

• Improves striking precision by providing instant feedback.
• Strengthens hand and wrist structure, reducing injury risk.
• Develops impact resistance, making punches more effective in combat.
• Enhances focus and targeting, ensuring strikes land with maximum efficiency.

My experience
Improves striking precision by providing instant feedback. Hit it the wrong way with the wrong structure and you'll know right away that you did it wrong. It's no different than the heavy bag, or a burlap heavy bag. Mistakes or pointed out instantly.

Strengthens hand and wrist structures. Reducing injury risk. People don't see this until they see other people hit heavy bags and get questions of amazement from other people like "How do you hit that heavy bag so hard without gloves?" Watch enough people collapse their wrist on the heavy bag and this reality becomes easier to understand.

Develop impact resistance - I'm always talking about this. Conditioning the skin and the bone is one thing but we must also condition through the impact. The impact is how the body deals with the force of the impact.

Enhances focus and targeting - Because we can't just hit as hard as we want, we have to strive to make the punch as efficient and as product as possible within our limits. Boxer's with gloves on can simply just hit harder. We can't, so if we can't just hit harder then we have to find ways to maximize punching power.

Loose focus on a burlap heavy bag and I'll pay a price. People with gloves won't have to pay that same price for losing a little focus. But the benefit becomes very clear when I spar. I'm very targeted and I've always said that I care more about landing a technique than about winning. I'm aways puzzled when someone says, "I might break my hand when hitting the head." My punching now is just more fine tuned than it would be if I have comfort of not worrying about injuring my hand because I had gloves on to protect me from my bad striking habits.

 

[JowGaWolf]

When hitting the heavy bag, wrapping hands and wearing gloves helps prevent injury to anyone’s hands. Two karate guys…

No one disagrees with this statement. It is already understood that the helps prevent injury to anyone's hands. But even in the video they acknowledge that they sometimes hit the heavy bag without gloves. Even Wonder boy states that he does it for the same reasons that everyone here who does it says in the video that you posted at 1:30

He also talks about training without gloves in this video. By the way his dad is a martial artist too.

Benefits of traditional hand conditioning. Different part of the same video. I know you are a big fan of time steps so both are timed stamp. just click on the video.

 

[isshinryuronin]

martial artists are going to be very specific with their punch placements

In my early years competing, pads of any kind were not allowed - just cup and mouthpiece. Even in the dojo, having an arm or shin pad was ridiculed unless it was to protect an existing injury. Once hand pads became mandatory at tournaments, I noticed two things: Technique became sloppier and hits to the head increased. Precision and control were early casualties of this innovation. Also, strikes were easier to block as one's hands (both the attacker's and defender's) were now significantly larger making it more difficult to slip a punch in. Power became more important than finesse.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Hopefully this helps the OP.

Much of what has been posted already by many is also stated in the videos that I posted.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Once hand pads became mandatory at tournaments, I noticed two things: Technique became sloppier and hits to the head increased. Precision and control were early casualties of this innovation. Also, strikes were easier to block as one's hands (both the attacker's and defender's) were now significantly larger making it more difficult to slip a punch in. Power became more important than finesse.

We can probably see this pattern through out history and we can probably just compare bare knuckle boxing with MMA boxing, with boxing to see the degree of "laziness" in punching technique.

I came across this. It looks like this happened inside of the glove. Which reminded me of something that happens with traditional fist hardening. The skin doesn't separate like the first few seconds on this video. His injury basically looks like he had a loose fitting callus and it ripped on the outer edges of that callus taking the callus with it. I'm only saying this because that's such a large area.

So I asked CoPilot about what you stated. and got this. #2 is our observation. #3 Pain and Hand Damage


My Question:
Is punch accuracy higher in bare knuckle fighting than in gloved fighting?

CoPilot's response:
Yes, punch accuracy tends to be higher in bare-knuckle fighting compared to gloved fighting. Here’s why:

Factors That Improve Accuracy in Bare-Knuckle Fighting​

1. Smaller Hand Surface Area – Without gloves, fighters have a clearer view of their target, allowing for more precise strikes.
2. More Caution in Punching – Fighters are less likely to throw wild punches because bare-knuckle strikes can easily cause hand injuries.
3. Better Hand-Eye Coordination – The natural feel of bare fists allows fighters to adjust their strikes more effectively.
4. Less Padding Interference – Gloves increase the surface area of a punch, sometimes leading to less precise targeting.

Challenges to Accuracy in Bare-Knuckle Fighting​

• Pain & Hand Damage – Fighters may hesitate to throw full-power punches, affecting accuracy.
• Defensive Adjustments – Opponents move differently in bare-knuckle fights, making it harder to land clean shots.
• Less Follow-Through – Fighters often pull back punches to avoid excessive damage to their own hands.

Comparing Punch Accuracy in Different Combat Sports​

• Boxing (Gloved) – Fighters throw higher-volume combinations, but gloves can reduce precision.
• MMA (Small Gloves) – Accuracy is higher than boxing, but gloves still slightly affect targeting.
• Bare-Knuckle Fighting – Fighters aim more carefully, leading to higher accuracy per punch.

This made me look up the difference between how power is delivered without a glove. Which looks like it touches on to what I was saying about being more effective with power within our limitations. The gloves allow the person to hit their hardest, but it doesn't translate into the more powerful punch.

I'm not sure why national geographic shows someone getting punched in the mouth. If I throw a punch a straight punch to the face, then I'm aiming for that spot under the eye on the cheek bone. It's a really nice striking surface and there are no teeth. The best thing about that area is that it's still available even if the person tilts their head into the punch.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Challenges to Accuracy in Bare-Knuckle Fighting​

• Pain & Hand Damage – Fighters may hesitate to throw full-power punches, affecting accuracy.
• Defensive Adjustments – Opponents move differently in bare-knuckle fights, making it harder to land clean shots.
• Less Follow-Through – Fighters often pull back punches to avoid excessive damage to their own hands.

Re: first bullet - I don't see the connection, rather the opposite occurs

second bullet - This is not a bad thing, just another element of the combat

third bullet - I don't think fighters think about this in the heat of battle and proper fist and wrist alignment along with good technique would reduce this danger. If you're doing bare hand MA, train bare hand.

I agree with all your comments regarding torn callous, target selection, and effective striking force.

 

[Same Trick]

See, thing is, the makiwara isn't a 'hard surface'. The very word 'makiwara' means 'wrapped in rice straw'. .

it’s known that Okinawa kingdom had tight diplomatic ties with Siam, ideas of rice straw wrapping might have been on the agenda already back then, ended up slightly different

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[Fungus]

The last time i hit the bag it was fine, and i hit as hard as i used to but I am now 99% sure that they ultimatley reason why i cut the skin 3 weeks ago, was that I did som exceptional striking that particular time: I effectvively did what this guy is doing... uppercuts to a straight heavy back until I lift the bag up... and but "hooking" the knuckles into the back, like you would in the rib cage! But it puts quite extreme friction inisde the gloves.. doing it a few times may work, but not alot during a single session...

So I probably will avoid doing this... and save it for sparring

 

[JowGaWolf]

Re: first bullet - I don't see the connection, rather the opposite occurs

This is a beginner level issue. that happens often. It comes from a misunderstanding of what the goal should be. When I hit the heavy bag it's for conditioning purposes even when I hit it hard. My goal is not focused on hitting the bag hard but to condition my punch. Beginners often assume that the goal is to hit the bag hard. So, when they feel pain from the bag, they begin to alter their punch, so it doesn't hurt, but for me that's against the goal of conditioning. They try to throw the jab so that it lands on different knuckles and they become resistant to throw any punch with power. I wouldn't classify it as a "full-power punch" but it's not the same power that they initially threw. The "Full-power" punch is deceptive because once your able to drive power really good, a 50% punch looks like a "Full-power" to everyone else.

But the first bullet is common. The first bullet is often where I step in to provide advice to people in the gym on how to hit a heavy bag and what they should focus on. I only step in because it's at a point where they run a high risk of severe injury, so to avoid my feelings of guilt from not helping when I should have., I share some advice. But yeah it's common, but I've only seen it with beginners.

second bullet - This is not a bad thing, just another element of the combat

It's not a bad thing but it's a challenge for some who only use gloves. For example, I can always tell who wears boxing gloves when sparring without gloves. They tend to walk me down in the same manner that they would if they had gloves on.

third bullet - I don't think fighters think about this in the heat of battle and proper fist and wrist alignment along with good technique would reduce this danger. If you're doing bare hand MA, train bare hand.

This is also a beginner issue related to sparring and not actually full-on fight. Growing up teens who had been in a fight had a saying "After the first punch, I don't feel anything else." That's because the adrenaline was so much that even after the fight there was no pain, but give it a few hours and the pain begins to creep in.

I think this Third one happens when people start slipping punches in the tight spaces of a defense. I've seen my sparring partners react that way even when they have gloves on. When my punches get in those small gaps, they get more hesitant about a lot of things. Keep in mind that when I spar bare-knuckle I 'm not trying to land shots with force. I tend to focus more on precision, timing and control. I don't want people to think I'm just hitting people bare knuckle or that they are doing the same to me.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I agree with all your comments regarding torn callous, target selection, and effective striking force.

I get these from time to time, not the tear but the callous that floats around. It usually happens when I've hadn't hit the heavy bag in a long time. For me it's like the stage where my body thinks. "I don't need this padding anymore, so I'll get rid of it." I usually just get back into the light conditioning and the body fixes it.

For those who haven't experienced this. It's almost like a blister underneath a Callous. Instead of the callous being close and tight to the knuckle, it's just kind of floating as if you leave it alone long enough it, the body will just kill the skin and replace the Callous with new skin underneath and then peel off the Callous like dead skin. The closest things I can think of are hand Callous and how the hand will get rid of it once it's no longer needed.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The last time i hit the bag it was fine, and i hit as hard as i used to but I am now 99% sure that they ultimatley reason why i cut the skin 3 weeks ago, was that I did som exceptional striking that particular time: I effectvively did what this guy is doing... uppercuts to a straight heavy back until I lift the bag up... and but "hooking" the knuckles into the back, like you would in the rib cage! But it puts quite extreme friction inisde the gloves.. doing it a few times may work, but not alot during a single session...

So I probably will avoid doing this... and save it for sparring

yeah that would do it. I can see the glove slide upward. Without gloves you would need to do the opposite of what he's saying about that upper cut. Without gloves the angle that the upper cut lands has to be different. I'm just going to assume that it has to be a 45-degree angle since that's the "magic number" in traditional martial arts. Lifting the big may be the wrong visualization because we normally life things at a 90-degree angle and not at a 45-degree angle away from use.

Energy visualization may yield better results. Imagine that your fist shoots energy from it when landing a punch. You want to lad the uppercut so that it shoots through the neck and comes out of the base of the skull. Or to land it on the abdomen at an angle so that it comes out of the mid back. Less about lifting an more about where that energy is exiting. If you want to send upward force as if you are trying to pop someone's head upward like pez candy dispenser then you'll need to use a different bag other than the straight heavy bag.

This may help as a visual. Where the bag begins to curve outward is about where you want to strike on a straight heavy bag. The widest part of the bag is not where you want to strike when doing uppercuts on straight heavy bag. Low on the curve = Yes hit at that angle High on the curve = don't hit at that location on a straight bag. Hit into the bag vs upward. The bag below will allow you to hit under the bag. But straight heavy bags won't allow it without swiping the punch and scrapping knuckles.

 

[Yokozuna514]

There was no trap, and once again you are another person muddying the issue.

We're not talking about "one art". We're not just talking about Queensbury rules boxing.

"values" of Kyokushin? What are the "values" of Kyokushin vs Muay Thai because Nak Muay would kill most Kyokushin karate "self defense" black belts.

Hahaha, ok, I think it’s fairly obvious that you are only interested in winding people up. If you feel like Muay Thai fighters would kill most Kyokushin black belts that’s fine. I think it shows exactly what you know about pretty much anything you’ve been saying. The only one that’s going to hurt is you and I’m perfectly fine with that.