Advice for hard punching with minimal padding, and still avoid ripping knuckle skin?

[Badhabits]

Not trying to argue, but wondering what type of hand injuries and how you're getting them?

 

[HighKick]

You are clearly in the wrong.

"Playing the autistic card"?

Not only did you just expose yourself as an ignorant person, you're going on permanent ignore.

Works for me.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Toilet wine is not a good experience. Blimey.

 

[Fungus]

Just for the discussion I myself don't classify ripped knuckle skin as an "injury" no more than I count bruised muscles or ribs. This stuff are benign transient and heals fast, usually in as few days to couple of weeks, with no residual issues.

Bruises and pain lasting for 2-3 days is something i appreciate from regular sparring. If there is no pain the day after it has been too low contact for my taste. One of our instructor has very good control and knows precisely where the limit is, so you can enjoy a good beating without fearing permanent injury. Very refreshing.

The ripped skin is more a practical hygiene matter as noone apprecaites getting blood everywhere, painless or not. Yes it happens every other time to someone in the group so everyone gets some blood anyway, so it not a superbig deal.

Injuries I want to avoid are broken/crackes ribs/bones, permanently damaged to ligaments or others things, that takes months or more to heal and some that may leave permanent issues even after healing.

 

[Simfers]

Toilet wine is not a good experience. Blimey.

It's really not on the same level as a bathtub mint julep, that's for sure.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

It's really not on the same level as a bathtub mint julep, that's for sure.

Um.... I think I've suffered enough. I will try this after the world stops spinning.

 

[marvin8]

When hitting the heavy bag, wrapping hands and wearing gloves helps prevent injury to anyone’s hands. Two karate guys…

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I've looked back through your posts and I'm not seeing it. Maybe my eyes are getting old. Can you point out the post where you explain what sort of injuries you're getting 3-4 times per week? Or else just go ahead and explain again?

Hand injuries, which are the topic of this thread

Okay, assuming that you're being sincere and not just trolling us, there has to be a miscommunication here. You're saying that you get 3-4 hand injuries per week? Even with wraps and tape and gloves? And you think that this is normal for anyone who trains hard contact?

As you've been saying, wraps and tapes and gloves are intended to prevent hand injuries. In general, they do a pretty good job of it.

I've never met anyone, hobbyist, amateur fighter, or pro fighter, boxer, judoka, nak muay, or jiu-jiteiro, who injures their hands 3-4 times per week in training. Is that really what you meant to say?

 

[JowGaWolf]

May I point out, once again, none of these people who claim to hit hard surfaces like makiwara or other "iron fist" stuff is practical.

It's practical in terms of fist conditioning and punching structure. But how one trains on it is extremely important. There are also many ways to condition so it's only an option. The best way I can explain it is how I hit the heavy bag at the gym without gloves, then others try to do the same thing and end up ripping the skin off their hand or hurting their hand. In my mind, hitting the heavy bag isn't about devloping power. It's about developing conditioning. The better my conditioning the harder I can hit the bag without power. Most people see hitting the heavy bag as developing power so they put on gloves and wraps to protect the structure of their hand as they try to hit it as hard as they can. When I punch the heavy bag hard I focus more on structure. As if I'm trying to break an egg that is in the center of the bag. That's how I'm trying to direct my power into the structure of my punch. If my structure is wrong then I won't be able to reach the egg. People who come in with gloves to hit the bag do not think of things like this, because the gloves and wraps makes those things less important. Take off the gloves and wraps would make such things very important to them.

 

[Fungus]

I don't compare myself with Wonderboy, perhaps its different if you train hard 7 days aweek, but i currently hit the bag 1-1.5 hours a week, and fight 1 hours a week. That is not near "all the time". So when i findally get my *** off the office chair and get into the dojo or bag room, I want to feel something back.

I can imagine, that if i ramped up my training alot, and did this one hours a day without rest/recover i would be different. I also do feel in may arms after training even on the bag, but that is gone in 2 days and there is plenty of rest.

Same with sparring - if I did sparring every single dat, without receover, then perhaps you would have to take it a bit more easy. But I do it so rarely (twice a week) that when it get to it, I want get feedback.

 

[JowGaWolf]

What is practical? Speed bag, heavy bag, or best, another human's rib cage because what we are talking about, if we're talking about martial arts? Hitting other humans.

The speed bag and heavy bag develop two different things, so they are more important within that category that they fit in. Another human's rib cage is not as simple, because the speed bag and heavy bag do not defend. When it comes to a human's rib cage the structure of a punch will make a difference. The angle of that punch will make a difference, and one'se ability to reach the chest will make a difference. All of the conidtioning in the world won't make a difference is your strike cannot land. Because of how I understand this. These 3 things do not share the same practical use nor the same practical goal.

 

[JowGaWolf]

And I don't think palm strikes have the same pep. For most of us.

It doesn't because the energy for a palm strike is not something that someone is just going to be able to do without training. The way that a person drives effective power for a palm strike is not the same way someone drives power for a punch. For me personally, I wouldn't try to use a palm strike in a fight unless it was something that I train. I'm a big supporter of only use what you train when fighting.

When hitting the heavy bag, wrapping hands and wearing gloves helps prevent injury to anyone’s hands.

This is true. I don't think people are disagreeing with this. They are just letting you know that punching without these things can be done safely too.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I see people are still trying to have a logical conversation here. Good luck with that.

ha ha ha. now I feel bad for responding

 

[JowGaWolf]

You're saying that you get 3-4 hand injuries per week? Even with wraps and tape and gloves? And you think that this is normal for anyone who trains hard contact?

Wow. I missed this.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Just for the discussion I myself don't classify ripped knuckle skin as an "injury" no more than I count bruised muscles or ribs. This stuff are benign transient and heals fast, usually in as few days to couple of weeks, with no residual issues.

These are injuries to me lol. If I have either one then I stop doing what caused it until it heals fully. Many people will say I'm a big baby but my mind set is that that the smaller injuries heal faster so I want to keep any injury as small as possible so I can continue to train.

 

[Fungus]

Good video, they mention some of the differences, as with many techniques there is difference between what gives maximum force, vs what gives impulse transfer. I agree with what they say there, a palm has a hard time to compete with one or two knuckles for peak force, but for impulse transfer the surface does not matter (knuckle or palm) its the momentum behind and the follow through.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Great threat to test Ai on. I think I'm going to step back for a bit. Don't take any of this stuff Personal. It may shed some light on what others may be seeing as well.

(Post #5)​

Flagged Inaccuracy: > "Never do this. Always tape, always wrap, and when possible, always glove."

• Why it's inaccurate: While wrapping and padding can reduce injury risk, not all training styles require them. Some practitioners train safely without hand protection, particularly in traditional or bare-knuckle disciplines. The claim that wrapping is always necessary oversimplifies personal preferences and martial arts-specific approaches.

My thoughts on what CoPilot found:
Sammy. This is what of the traditional martial artists that I know think when it comes to discussions about Hand Wraps. Many of us train without using it so for us hand wraps is more of an option. We also understand that some sports where boxing gloves are used Hand Wraps may be necessary because of how the glove shapes the fist. I know when I use boxing gloves, I have to use extra effort to maintain a correct fist structure when using boxing gloves without wraps.

A good example of this is to simply view bare knuckle fighting and MMA where hand wraps may not be used, especially to the extent that boxers use hand wraps. Here we can see that there are no wraps used.

Most of what you are seeing and continue to see posted is simply. People who don't use them telling you of their experience of not using wraps and it's clashing with your strong feelings about it being necessary to wear wraps.

 

[isshinryuronin]

we came to the conclusion that bricklaying would be the best exercise.

I actually had a student who was a bricklayer. His body even resembled a brick - kind of squat and very solid. I had Benny Urquidez down to my dojo for a seminar (about 1974/75) and he "sparred" a bit with my students. Up against the bricklayer Benny did a flying body scissors takedown. Amazing, especially against someone with a build that seemingly offered little leverage to work with.

I never was matched with Benny in tournaments, but I had a chance to work against him that day. I managed to land a good body punch and found he was as solid as a brick as well, almost spraining my hand. Maybe I should have worn a wrap .

 

[JowGaWolf]

Good video, they mention some of the differences, as with many techniques there is difference between what gives maximum force, vs what gives impulse transfer. I agree with what they say there, a palm has a hard time to compete with one or two knuckles for peak force, but for impulse transfer the surface does not matter (knuckle or palm) its the momentum behind and the follow through.

When I think of palm strike, I tend to vision Strike+Move. I don't want to just hit it, but I want to move it out of the way. I don't want to just strike the head but I want to use that same force to bend then neck if striking from side, or lifting the chin if striking from underneath the chin like an upper cut. If I palm strike on top of the the head then I want to drive that impact force into the bones of the neck with the goals of compressing.

Palm strikes to the chesk are the same way. The video below may explain why the palm strike is as effective as it is. To me the concept is the same. The strike against the body is not for the purpose of breaking the bottle with the strike although it's an option if one desires. But for me. Palm strikes are Strike + Move something

 

[JowGaWolf]

Advice for hard punching with minimal padding, and still avoid ripping knuckle skin​

"Ripping knuckle skin".

Wraps aren't padding, they protect the wrist and hand bones and skin. Tape does the same thing. Decent gloves protect the fingers.

Right? Am I the crazy here?

This is correct. Your response addresses the issue but not the cause. The cause of ripping knuckles is the result of 2 things. Unconditioned hands and striking technique. This problem of ripping skin can be solved by protection or by actually correcting what is causing it. Wearing gloves will protect the hand from the root cause, but will not correct what is actually causing it. If you correct the root cause then the skin will stop ripping even if you don't have gloves on.

Traditional Martial Arts think like this. The skin of my knuckle is ripping. What is causing it to rip. Does it only rip when I do certain punches, Is it ripping because my punches are swiping the bag. This is an Eastern mindset.

Western mindset thinks like this. The skin of my knuckle is ripping. I need something to protect my skin. This method does not determine why your skin is ripping.

Think of it like this.
Your perspective to punching: I have a headache. I take aspirin to get rid of the headache. Solution works. It stops the pain.

Vs

Traditional Martial arts perspective to martial arts: I have a headache. Why am I getting a headache? What is causing the headache. My high blood pressure is causing the head ache. Aspirin will stop the pain but will not address the root cause.