Advice for hard punching with minimal padding, and still avoid ripping knuckle skin?

[Sammy Naur]

No, really, I’m not lecturing you. I think you should do what you feel is beneficial for your training. I really have no interest in trying to convince you of anything. You have convinced me of the futility in that.

You do you. I’ll do me.

Yes you are lecturing me. "You have convinced me of..."

And patronizing me on top of that.

It's fine, I'm used to being patronized by "Martial artists" who think tape, wraps, and gloves aren't important. Unfortunately they also tend to fall into the same crowd as people who have no real full contact experience.

Even the Kyokushin people I have met seem to get this part. The Isshin Ryu and kung fu people in general seem to miss the point.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yes you are lecturing me. "You have convinced me of..."

And patronizing me on top of that.

It's fine, I'm used to being patronized by "Martial artists" who think tape, wraps, and gloves aren't important. Unfortunately they also tend to fall into the same crowd as people who have no real full contact experience.

Even the Kyokushin people I have met seem to get this part. The Isshin Ryu and kung fu people in general seem to miss the point.

Really, it’s ok. If you don’t want to do it the way I do, I have no problem with that. I don’t need to change your mind. Seriously. Do you. I’ll do me. No worries.

 

[Flying Crane]

Kempo black belt there you know, you can’t see it, but it’s there. He can’t see it there either.

Ant see much of anything below that belly.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I mean, this is boxing 101 stuff. And I have read your posts so I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from.

Anybody claiming to hit things all their lives with no protection screams to me they don't really know what they are doing. The whole iron fist thing doesn't go far with me.

Wrapping your wrists to me is so fundamental and important for long term structural health.

And this is a thread about "

Advice for hard punching with minimal padding, and still avoid ripping knuckle skin​

"Ripping knuckle skin".

Wraps aren't padding, they protect the wrist and hand bones and skin. Tape does the same thing. Decent gloves protect the fingers.

Right? Am I the crazy here?

Well I have torn all the skin off my knuckles when I was younger by hitting bags, both with and without gloves. Despite what you might think, ive done and received my fair share of violence, both inside and outside a gym. I have broken most of my fingers at least once and both hands, I’ve been stabbed twice, beaten unconscious with both a cane and a bat, shot at in several instances, etc etc. it means nothing other than that I lacked any sense of self preservation. When I was doing full contact I used 4 ounce gloves, a mouth guard and a cup, that’s it. When I hit a bag I use bag gloves (no wraps) but I sometimes stick moleskin between knuckles and tape it in place for any heavy contact. I work in surgery the last 20 years so I cannot afford to have broken skin ( or broken hands ) anymore. I don’t do much full speed sparring anymore because I’ve had several TBI injuries that put me at risk for more CTE. Yeah I’m older, but I still train several times a week. I’m not a tough guy, but ive known several, which is how i know I’m not one. I’m not an authority on anything at all. I think it’s easy to think we know the one way to do things, but there really are some unicorns out there, even if you haven’t personally met one. I don’t doubt that wraps and gloves are a good advice to beginners or ring boxers. I don’t doubt that you have the experience to have your opinions be legitimately true. I do doubt that you are THE authority on all things martial. Look at the knuckles on old karatekas, no doubt you can SEE the conditioning. I don’t know how long you have been hitting people or objects, but you are talking down and insulting people that have been doing just that for decades. Consider the possibility that they may know something you don’t. I’m not talking about myself here, I’m nobody, but several of these guys have forgotten more about martial arts than I will ever learn. Just sayin.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Ant see much of anything below that belly.

Need one of those mirrors on a stick.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I mean, this is boxing 101 stuff. .

Wrapping your wrists to me is so fundamental

I fully agree. Wrapping for boxing makes sense. What doesn't make sense is applying the same paradigm to a much different activity - traditional Okinawan self-defense karate vs the sport of boxing. To contrast them:

1. Boxing - designed for multiple rounds involving dozens (100+) of fist contacts during an encounter. Karate - designed for completing an encounter with less than 10 such contacts, preferably 4 or 5.

2. Boxing - all strikes performed with the hands.
Karate - strikes also done with elbows, knees, feet, forearms and also reliance on grabs and joint locks.

3. Boxing - encounters are pre-planned, allowing for wrapping, putting on cups, etc.
Karate - designed for unforeseen spontaneous combat, precluding the ability to don protective equipment.

There are other differences as well, but these three illustrate how the use of hands differs between the two activities. This obviously results in different training requirements and methods.

As in the case of makiwara benefits, it's wise to understand the thing one is critiquing and not view it thru the restricted biased lens of just your own art.

 

[Fungus]

So, I'm wondering where this thread went into the weed of makiwara, and people don't see the need for fist wraps, tape, gloves, etc.

Some feedback on the original issue i had. The sores on knuckles now healed and i tried again with dual direction taping with flex kinesology tape on the knuckles, inside the same bag gloves, and the last time I managed to beat the bag without tearing the skin again, and no blood in fighting this time, progress.

I think the problem was i overdid it the other time on a new hard bag. I usually mix an hour with kicking and punching, but that time i hit harder than usual and did almost only striking, not so much kicking, and also did some uppercuts at angle, that i think was the culprit, vill avoid them. I though I would get away with them due to the gloves, but apparently the same friction still occurs, but on the inside of the glove. But it would obviously have been 10 times worst without gloves.

So I think it's under control now.

 

[isshinryuronin]

This is a great example of your ridiculous posting.

It was very ridiculous for me to say that jumping rope is useless to boxing as my grandkids can do one but not the other. But I was merely applying the same logic as you did:

You can start with the "Okinawan guy who punches a rope-wrapped reinforced 2x4 a hundred times."


makiwara is not an effective training tool

You are the joke here.

 

[isshinryuronin]

you honestly believe hitting some object your whole life is a replacement for actually training your hands, feet, limbs, and body to get hit.

Who, ever on this thread, said or implied it's a replacement? Your attitude is seemingly blinding you from being coherent.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Some feedback on the original issue i had. The sores on knuckles now healed and i tried again with dual direction taping with flex kinesology tape on the knuckles, inside the same bag gloves, and the last time I managed to beat the bag without tearing the skin again, and no blood in fighting this time, progress.

I think the problem was i overdid it the other time on a new hard bag. I usually mix an hour with kicking and punching, but that time i hit harder than usual and did almost only striking, not so much kicking, and also did some uppercuts at angle, that i think was the culprit, vill avoid them. I though I would get away with them due to the gloves, but apparently the same friction still occurs, but on the inside of the glove. But it would obviously have been 10 times worst without gloves.

So I think it's under control now.

I don’t do much bag work lately but I the past I had similar problems. I thought the skin would just thicken over time, but it just always broke open eventually. Taping the moleskin between my knuckles had a similar positive effect. It’s the shearing action that seems to tear the skin, like circling punches make cuts on faces. Thusly, I try to limit the types of strikes I practice on a bag. Also, I would submit that some people that do a lot of solo heavy bag develop a bad habit of leaning on the bag, a bag partner makes all the difference.

 

[Flying Crane]

It's fine, I'm used to being patronized by "Martial artists" who think tape, wraps, and gloves aren't important.

Honest bit of friendly advice here: if you often find that people respond to you in this way, it might have something to do with how you present yourself.

 

[Flying Crane]

Need one of those mirrors on a stick.

A selfie-stick for the boys!

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Honest bit of friendly advice here: if you often find that people respond to you in this way, it might have something to do with how you present yourself.

Boy Howdy!

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

A selfie-stick for the boys!

Manual zoom.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

A selfie-stick for the boys!

“ Now I know I tucked that c note in here somewhere…”

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Honest bit of friendly advice here: if you often find that people respond to you in this way, it might have something to do with how you present yourself.

At first I read this and thought “ he is talking to me”. I may borrow this advice for myself if you don’t mind.

 

[isshinryuronin]

You laugh, but I know all about @Buka and his history.

Buka, is there something you're not telling us?

maybe what I really should have said is that @isshinryuronin , you are the problem in this thread.

I've surpassed Buka? Thanks for the promotion.

 

[Flying Crane]

Right? Am I the crazy here?

…um…

 

[Badhabits]

I don’t do much bag work lately but I the past I had similar problems. I thought the skin would just thicken over time, but it just always broke open eventually. Taping the moleskin between my knuckles had a similar positive effect. It’s the shearing action that seems to tear the skin, like circling punches make cuts on faces. Thusly, I try to limit the types of strikes I practice on a bag. Also, I would submit that some people that do a lot of solo heavy bag develop a bad habit of leaning on the bag, a bag partner makes all the difference.

Please sir, what is leaning on the bag?

 

[Flying Crane]

That's why I think the whole "I never tape or wrap" stuff falls flat on my ears. It's important to protect your hands, wrists, fingers...striking 101. Vs. all of this "my fists are made of iron!" stuff. The combat athletes just know better.

About the bolded, italic part. Serious question here: maybe I missed it, but please show me where anybody in this thread made such a claim. Point to the specific post and specific language.

I gifted a pair of my boxing wraps to a young kid the other day who is training boxing. I told him those wraps were battle tested, and it was the truth.

I bled in them. Those were my black pair, I have red ones too.

Gross. Would have been kinder to give him a new, clean, sanitary set of wraps. Passing along your wraps? That’s like gifting someone your dirty underwear.