Advice for hard punching with minimal padding, and still avoid ripping knuckle skin?

[Flying Crane]

I do not disagree with what you have said. A heavy bag will develop all those things at the same time. Makiwara training toughens the hands and the mind to some extent. There takes a certain amount of discipline or crazy (call it what you will) to repeated hit a board with the sole purpose of perfecting that one movement. I expect that after spending all that time dedicated to harding your hands and repeatedly practicing that punch you will become very good at it and have the hands to prove it.

It's a different mindset that appeal to some. People that that use it in their training or do other iron body work seem to think so but I expect that it wouldn't appeal to 99% of the people doing martial arts and that is ok too.

I think you’ve nailed the issue here. Sometimes folks fall into the mode of thinking there is one single correct way to go about training. There isn’t. Many ways will work very well. You get out of it what you put into it. You work with the methods that speak to you and that you relate to and enjoy. No single method is the best for everyone.

Incidentally, I train the heavy bag much as you describe the makiwara. I drill one technique at a time, over and over. I don’t “box” with the heavy bag. I’ve had some boxing/kickboxing folks on other forums express their dismay at that approach as well. It doesn’t matter. I didn’t try to tell them they had to do it my way. I just said that is how I do it. Some people get pretty bent out of shape over stuff. Shrug emoji.

 

[Badhabits]

Incidentally, the purpose of makiwara training isn't primarily for toughening of the hands. That's more of a byproduct. It gives you feedback on your structure better than a bag. I think it strengthens your punching parts better as well. It'll burn your muscles in ways a heavy bag doesn't, and faster. It pushes back when you hit it. You're punching against more resistance than on a bag. That's something I notice going back and forth- hit the makiwara a number of times and then go to the bag, the bag will seem much easier to hit after makiwara reps.

 

[Badhabits]

Flying crane, I didn't mean to sound snide. I think I had your word "incidentally" in my mind after reading your post!

 

[Flying Crane]

Flying crane, I didn't mean to sound snide. I think I had your word "incidentally" in my mind after reading your post!

Fear not, good sir. I never would have taken it that way.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Fear not, good sir. I never would have taken it that way.

I posted this elsewhere today,

don’t get “caught in a trap”.

 

[Flying Crane]

I posted this elsewhere today, View attachment 32994don’t get “caught in a trap”.

Please burn my eyes out.

 

[Xue Sheng]

All I have to say is I hit a heavy bag, hard, for years, never wore any gloves. Use to palm strike trees a concrete walls to. Hit those hard as well. The first time I ever truly hurt my hand was when I listened to someone who said I should use boxing gloves. I hurt my wrist and hand with boxing gloves.

I now strike with MMA, fingerless gloves and my bare fist

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Please burn my eyes out.

Kempo black belt there you know, you can’t see it, but it’s there. He can’t see it there either.

 

[Buka]

No, Let's talk about you.

You clearly have no full contact experience, but are lecturing me. Twice in a row.

So, I'm wondering where this thread went into the weed of makiwara, and people don't see the need for fist wraps, tape, gloves, etc.

See, this conversation was about hitting things with your bare hands. Something Martial artists from antiquity learned not to do lightly.

Here's something I've noticed: quite a few of you have never hit a human being in your entire lives. But, a good portion of it has been spent writing posts about it and pontificating on it.

You should sharpen your reading comprehension skills. You seem to pay no attention to the thread’s title and constantly change it to your boast of your full contact skills.

Nobody here really gives a damn about how tough you think you are.

Your continued insults aimed at anyone you please screams of a person with no manners, no confidence and more than likely a personality disorder. And claiming that injuring yourself constantly as a by product of what you think of as superior training screams to me that you never actually trained with professionals.

 

[isshinryuronin]

It gives you feedback on your structure better than a bag. I think it strengthens your punching parts better as well. It'll burn your muscles in ways a heavy bag doesn't, and faster. It pushes back when you hit it. You're punching against more resistance than on a bag.

I think building structure, power and providing instant feedback are the three main physical benefits. A heavy bag does this too, to a greater or lesser extent, but in a different way. The biggest factor is the resistance the makiwara provides - extreme. And this "impacts" () all three benefits. To expand on your post:

Extreme resistance means there is little/no absorption of the striking power. The structural chain is subjected to higher stress which strengthens it (and indeed, also gives opportunity for injury if the strike is not correctly done). Upon impact there is full and immediate feedback to the entire striking structure, from impact point to wrist, elbow, shoulder and torso. Any defect in your structure will be instantly revealed. This allows for instant correction and effective perfection of technique. In this respect it is time efficient.

The heavy bag gradually slows the strike as it penetrates into the stuffing causing the striking power to be slowly dissipated. The muscles providing impact work for a longer period of time in variable intensity as the resistance grows the further the penetration. With the makiwara full force is encountered almost at once with little absorption. Total muscle usage comes into play at the same instant (chinkuchi) with a split second of full isotonic effect on the muscles at the end.

There is also a difference in methodology. Combos are often thrown on the heavy bag, whereas a repetition of single moves are typically done on the makiwara. Each individual strike encompasses the exercise. The mental aspect comes in here. Not only is full physical concentration on each strike employed, but mental as well. One's full attention is devoted to each single strike. This concentration is necessary not only to get the full effect of the makiwara, but to also avoid injury (mainly to the wrist and skin). There is an element of pain in using the traditional makiwara (unless you have done it constantly for many years) that requires mental discipline to perform repetition after repetition.

There is nothing wrong in working the heavy bag. I think it's a useful and necessary piece of karate equipment. But the makiwara has its own unique character and set of benefits.

 

[Sammy Naur]

You should sharpen your reading comprehension skills. You seem to pay no attention to the thread’s title and constantly change it to your boast of your full contact skills.

That never happened, the part about you claiming I boasted about anything skill related.

Nobody here really gives a damn about how tough you think you are.

What are you talking about "tough".

All I've posted is boxing 101 hand protection guidance from experts.

Your continued insults aimed at anyone you please screams of a person with no manners, no confidence and more than likely a personality disorder.

Personality disorder. Really.

And claiming that injuring yourself constantly as a by product of what you think of as superior training screams to me that you never actually trained with professionals.

I think this is a terrible summary of my posts here.

And I think you are the one with a reading comprehension problem, since I've been very clearly representing very basic, time tested combat sports wisdom.

Let's recap, the thread title is "

Advice for hard punching with minimal padding, and still avoid ripping knuckle skin?​

That's an injury that can be easily avoided with tape, wraps, and when necessary gloves.

Listen, if you feel it's your job to defend people with poor training, hitting things with no hand or wrist protection, and then turning around and claiming people like me promoting protective prophylactics, maybe you are also part of the problem with martial arts today.

Just so we're clear, your status as a moderator means you are here to keep the peace and I get that.

But let other people fight their own battles. I have been patronized in this thread for promoting hand protection, in a thread about skin breaks by people claiming to be Martial artists.

Unreal.

 

[Badhabits]

I think building structure, power and providing instant feedback are the three main physical benefits. A heavy bag does this too, to a greater or lesser extent, but in a different way. The biggest factor is the resistance the makiwara provides - extreme. And this "impacts" () all three benefits. To expand on your post:

Extreme resistance means there is little/no absorption of the striking power. The structural chain is subjected to higher stress which strengthens it (and indeed, also gives opportunity for injury if the strike is not correctly done). Upon impact there is full and immediate feedback to the entire striking structure, from impact point to wrist, elbow, shoulder and torso. Any defect in your structure will be instantly revealed. This allows for instant correction and effective perfection of technique. In this respect it is time efficient.

The heavy bag gradually slows the strike as it penetrates into the stuffing causing the striking power to be slowly dissipated. The muscles providing impact work for a longer period of time in variable intensity as the resistance grows the further the penetration. With the makiwara full force is encountered almost at once with little absorption. Total muscle usage comes into play at the same instant (chinkuchi) with a split second of full isotonic effect on the muscles at the end.

There is also a difference in methodology. Combos are often thrown on the heavy bag, whereas a repetition of single moves are typically done on the makiwara. Each individual strike encompasses the exercise. The mental aspect comes in here. Not only is full physical concentration on each strike employed, but mental as well. One's full attention is devoted to each single strike. This concentration is necessary not only to get the full effect of the makiwara, but to also avoid injury (mainly to the wrist and skin). There is an element of pain in using the traditional makiwara (unless you have done it constantly for many years) that requires mental discipline to perform repetition after repetition.

There is nothing wrong in working the heavy bag. I think it's a useful and necessary piece of karate equipment. But the makiwara has its own unique character and set of benefits.

Said much better than I ever could have

 

[Sammy Naur]

All I have to say is I hit a heavy bag, hard, for years, never wore any gloves. Use to palm strike trees a concrete walls to. Hit those hard as well. The first time I ever truly hurt my hand was when I listened to someone who said I should use boxing gloves. I hurt my wrist and hand with boxing gloves.

I now strike with MMA, fingerless gloves and my bare fist

Palm striking concrete? Hitting heavy bags without any protection?

And now boxing gloves actually cause injuries?

I'm noticing a pattern here of bad advice regarding striking. I get that the karate, kung fu etc crowd loves to crow about this sort of thing, but it's make believe.

 

[isshinryuronin]

maybe you are also part of the problem with martial arts today.

Buka, you've finally been busted.

 

[Sammy Naur]

I don’t know anything about your background beyond what you say here. You talk like you know mine. These gloves didn’t get in this condition by themselves.

I mean, this is boxing 101 stuff. And I have read your posts so I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from.

Anybody claiming to hit things all their lives with no protection screams to me they don't really know what they are doing. The whole iron fist thing doesn't go far with me.

Wrapping your wrists to me is so fundamental and important for long term structural health.

And this is a thread about "

Advice for hard punching with minimal padding, and still avoid ripping knuckle skin​

"Ripping knuckle skin".

Wraps aren't padding, they protect the wrist and hand bones and skin.

Right?