Addressing people.

[Earl Weiss]

Some have commented as to my posts wherein I refer to someone as "Sir" or if appropriate "Mam" . Please do not read anything negative in to this. As most know I am a Chang Hon TK-D student and instructor. The system has deep military roots with the 5 tenets being core principles of the "Do" with "Courtesy " being the most important.

As such it is our practice in TK-D environs to practice courtesy by using "Sir" or "Mam" or appropriate title when addressing someone. This extends to situations such as TKD / Martial arts environs on the internet. I have no issues with those who do not follow this convention and I hope none are insulted by the use of these terms. Similarly my failure to use the term in appropriate circumstances should only be viewed as my failure to follow my habit and nothing bad should be implied.

 

[Metal]

While Choi Hong Hi and the 'military' roots of Taekwondo had quite an impact on Taekwondo in Germany, we don't have a 'Sir' or 'Mam' equivalent at all over here.

Actually, we had a discussion regarding the use of "Sir" in 2012:

The Sir Sandwich - "Sir, yes Sir!

 

[skribs]

Some have commented as to my posts wherein I refer to someone as "Sir" or if appropriate "Mam" . Please do not read anything negative in to this. As most know I am a Chang Hon TK-D student and instructor. The system has deep military roots with the 5 tenets being core principles of the "Do" with "Courtesy " being the most important.

As such it is our practice in TK-D environs to practice courtesy by using "Sir" or "Mam" or appropriate title when addressing someone. This extends to situations such as TKD / Martial arts environs on the internet. I have no issues with those who do not follow this convention and I hope none are insulted by the use of these terms. Similarly my failure to use the term in appropriate circumstances should only be viewed as my failure to follow my habit and nothing bad should be implied.

I also hope you don't read into my not using "sir" as a sign of disrespect. I just consider the internet to be less formal than class.

 

[andyjeffries]

Some have commented as to my posts wherein I refer to someone as "Sir" or if appropriate "Mam" . Please do not read anything negative in to this. As most know I am a Chang Hon TK-D student and instructor. The system has deep military roots with the 5 tenets being core principles of the "Do" with "Courtesy " being the most important.

I wonder if this is different in ITF TK-D or in USA in general. As an Englishman, I think we use Sir very rarely (teachers at secondary school) and Ma'am almost never (the Queen or another member of the royal family is probably the only people I could think I'd use it to).

I use people's English Taekwondo titles when referring to them (I'll still often refer to you as GM Weiss here, even though we've been talking online for many years) and I'll happily use the Korean titles when speaking in Korean, but calling people Sir all the time feels very American to me.

While I agree that ITF TK-D has deep military roots (my Kwan didn't come from the military), it also came from the Korean military specifically, where as I understand it they also don't have a sir/ma'am equivalent - in Korean culture they use full titles + "nim" a LOT! So again, that feels like American values and practices applied over a Korean martial art.

Just my opinion though.

 

[jobo]

I wonder if this is different in ITF TK-D or in USA in general. As an Englishman, I think we use Sir very rarely (teachers at secondary school) and Ma'am almost never (the Queen or another member of the royal family is probably the only people I could think I'd use it to).

I use people's English Taekwondo titles when referring to them (I'll still often refer to you as GM Weiss here, even though we've been talking online for many years) and I'll happily use the Korean titles when speaking in Korean, but calling people Sir all the time feels very American to me.

While I agree that ITF TK-D has deep military roots (my Kwan didn't come from the military), it also came from the Korean military specifically, where as I understand it they also don't have a sir/ma'am equivalent - in Korean culture they use full titles + "nim" a LOT! So again, that feels like American values and practices applied over a Korean martial art.

Just my opinion though.

as a fellow english man i agree the term is rare, how ever that gives you an advantage if you choose to use it in ussually situations, one) with the right internation you can weaponise it as an insult , second) it has a high sucess rate of getting you favourable treatment from aurthority, jumped up petty official cant help themselves from beibg flattered by the title, ingact people generaly react positively to requests if assistance if you adress them such

mam is a far more tricky one, its likely to annoy more people than it flatters, as its associated with being middled aged and mumsy

a friend of mine who was a jumped up petty official used to use imthe titlesliberally when dealing with annoyed member of the public, which resulted in muliple complaints to his employer, that he ws being over polite, and as such belittling them, which of course was his intent, but very difficult to make a complaint stick

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I wonder if this is different in ITF TK-D or in USA in general. As an Englishman, I think we use Sir very rarely (teachers at secondary school) and Ma'am almost never (the Queen or another member of the royal family is probably the only people I could think I'd use it to).

I use people's English Taekwondo titles when referring to them (I'll still often refer to you as GM Weiss here, even though we've been talking online for many years) and I'll happily use the Korean titles when speaking in Korean, but calling people Sir all the time feels very American to me.

While I agree that ITF TK-D has deep military roots (my Kwan didn't come from the military), it also came from the Korean military specifically, where as I understand it they also don't have a sir/ma'am equivalent - in Korean culture they use full titles + "nim" a LOT! So again, that feels like American values and practices applied over a Korean martial art.

Just my opinion though.

Except in some areas of the South in the US, Sir/Mam is pretty rare outside the service industry. Folks waiting tables tend to use it, because it has a more polite connotation when you say "Yes, sir."

 

[Deleted member 39746]

The funny thing is, i tend to see military sytems shy away from those two. But it cant beat somone using Sensei for TKD.

 

[dvcochran]

Some have commented as to my posts wherein I refer to someone as "Sir" or if appropriate "Mam" . Please do not read anything negative in to this. As most know I am a Chang Hon TK-D student and instructor. The system has deep military roots with the 5 tenets being core principles of the "Do" with "Courtesy " being the most important.

As such it is our practice in TK-D environs to practice courtesy by using "Sir" or "Mam" or appropriate title when addressing someone. This extends to situations such as TKD / Martial arts environs on the internet. I have no issues with those who do not follow this convention and I hope none are insulted by the use of these terms. Similarly my failure to use the term in appropriate circumstances should only be viewed as my failure to follow my habit and nothing bad should be implied.

Sir, I agree and support your communication.
As Gerry said, it is more prevalent in the south. Having grown up in a very southern culture where manners were stressed with repercussions, it is just part of my vernacular. It simply worked in my favor when I got involved in traditional MA's.

Yes, I understand it can be said as a slur just as much as a sign of respect. This is all the more reason to use it accordingly and frequently.
I am not certain what I would call being instantly offended by someone who uses a gesture of respect.

It is my experience that it is still an effective tool in almost any environment. Being able to say 'yes sir' to someone in a business meeting with confidence can swing a big hammer.

 

[andyjeffries]

As Gerry said, it is more prevalent in the south. Having grown up in a very southern culture where manners were stressed with repercussions, it is just part of my vernacular.

I assume (generally and because of your current location) you mean south/southern USA? I do find it funny when people say "the south" and "southern" without thinking about how others what that means to others in their own countries on a global forum.

I grew up in the south too, just outside of London ;-)

Of course, that's not as far south as our African colleagues on this forum, let along our Taekwondo family from NZ/Australia To them I'm a stinking northerner!

 

[Buka]

Addressing people as sir or ma'am is as deeply ingrained in me as saying God bless you or gazuntite when someone sneezes.

 

[Steve]

Except in some areas of the South in the US, Sir/Mam is pretty rare outside the service industry. Folks waiting tables tend to use it, because it has a more polite connotation when you say "Yes, sir."

Mam? This isn't the first time I've seen this here, but I've never seen this spelling elsewhere. Is this a new way to spell ma'am (which is a contraction of madam)?

 

[dvcochran]

Mam? This isn't the first time I've seen this here, but I've never seen this spelling elsewhere. Is this a new way to spell ma'am (which is a contraction of madam)?

They both work and are mostly interchangeable.

Ma'am is another written form for Madam, which is used to politely or respectfully address a woman. But actually 'Mam' is a small version of mother, whereas, "Ma'am" is a contracted version of Madam.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Mam? This isn't the first time I've seen this here, but I've never seen this spelling elsewhere. Is this a new way to spell ma'am (which is a contraction of madam)?

No, apparently autocorrect decided that's what I was trying to type.

 

[Steve]

No, apparently autocorrect decided that's what I was trying to type.

Learn something new every day. I've never seen mam before.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Learn something new every day. I've never seen mam before.

I'd only ever seen it as a reference to a mother. I think it was more common in the South of the US perhaps in the 1800's. I'm fairly certain I've run across it in novels, as well, as an alternative to the British "mum" (perhaps Irish usage?), but I don't recall where.

 

[Steve]

I'd only ever seen it as a reference to a mother. I think it was more common in the South of the US perhaps in the 1800's. I'm fairly certain I've run across it in novels, as well, as an alternative to the British "mum" (perhaps Irish usage?), but I don't recall where.

Yeah, i googled it out of curiosity, and it looks like an Irish version of "mum", but never heard an American say it, and half my family is Southern. This was almost as surprising to me as the day I learned that "literally" can mean either literally or figuratively.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

I assume (generally and because of your current location) you mean south/southern USA? I do find it funny when people say "the south" and "southern" without thinking about how others what that means to others in their own countries on a global forum.

I grew up in the south too, just outside of London ;-)

Since this is TKD, there is also South Korea.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Some have commented as to my posts wherein I refer to someone as "Sir" or if appropriate "Mam" . Please do not read anything negative in to this. .

I know a few women who find "Ma'am" insulting, making them feel like old ladies, but I've never heard of any men having a problem with "Sir".

 

[Steve]

I know a few women who find "Ma'am" insulting, making them feel like old ladies, but I've never heard of any men having a problem with "Sir".

I don't like sir and saying so is actually where this thread came from. I don't think I'm the only one who doesn't like it. I would guess it's pretty common.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

I don't like sir...

Why is that? Does it seem not genuine to you?

Personally , I hate "bro" and "dude".