A sniper takes a toll in Iraq.

[hardheadjarhead]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1542824,00.html


They've nicknamed him "Juba," and he's picking off Americans left and right.

The article mentions how an entire Marine sniper team of four men, two snipers, two spotters, were killed with shots to the head. That wouldn't be easy to do...makes me wonder if its an urban myth.


Regards,

Steve

 

[Martial Tucker]

The whole article kind of annoys me. First of all, the author talks about how some of the Iraqi sniper's shots are from "over 200 yards". For a halfway decent sniper/marksman, hitting a target from 200 yards is like a good golfer making a 2 foot putt. Granted, Carlos Hathcock was one of the best ever, but he routinely hit targets at 1000 yards. I also can't imagine one sniper taking the risk of even attempting to take out a 4 man team. It would be almost certain that he would be detected after the 2nd shot, especially from only 200 yards away. If the guy's that good, I find it hard to believe he'd get that greedy.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

In an urban environment the ranges are far closer...the 1,000 yard shot doesn't always take place. I see no reason for them not to be able to effectively engage our snipers at shorter ranges. They're bound to have experienced veterans who have learned how to mask fire at ranges of two hundred yards by shooting through and between gaps in buildings, from the far side of trees, through loopholes and recessed hides well back from windows and deep into buildings. There is also no reason to believe they aren't using suppressed weapons...which would mandate closer sniping.

Remember that sniping was taken to a high art in a very short time on the Russian front. The Arabs must have learned something in the last three years...and unlike our guys they're in this for far longer than a three year hitch.

I got a video clip last month taken by an Iraqi who shot one our soldiers. The range isn't over two hundred yards. You hear the Iraqi (could be a foreign national, I suppose) talk about taking the shot in Arabic...its either him or his spotter. You see the soldier get hit, go down, and then run to the far side of the Humvee he's been standing next to.

I've sent this article out to others connected with the sniper community to see whether that supposed killing of a Marine team is a myth or not. I suspect it is, and will be dismayed if it is not...as we should all be.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Tgace]

I could hit a target at 300 M with iron sights on an M16. Marines can do it at 500. And 4 kills does not an Iraqi "Hathcock" make.
How about this guy?
http://www.headsbunker.com/html/2005/01/dirtbag-dead-marine-sniper-sets-record.html

 

[Tgace]

That soldier shot in that video not only survived (thanks to rifle plates in his vest) he assaulted, shot, and then provided aid to the guy who shot him.

As to if the Marine snipers have indeed been shot. I just saw some footage of insurgents in Iraq displaying Sniper equipment they said was from American Marine snipers so it could be. While it pisses me off, it is what happens over there. Remember Murphy's Law of Combat: You are not superman. Fighter pilots and Marines take note.

Although this may be a "urban legendization" of this story....
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/03/international/middleeast/03iraq.html

Im fairly confident that the Leathernecks will get this guy sooner or later.

 

[dubljay]

While I have no experience in the millitary, let alone how snipers behave, this article just doesn't seem right.

There is an obvious contradiction in the article

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]There is never a follow-up shot, never a chance for US forces to identify the origin, to make the hunter the hunted. He fires once and vanishes.



[/font][font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]The insurgent grapevine celebrates an incident last June when a four-strong marine scout sniper team was killed in Ramadi, all with shots to the head.[/font]

If this Juba character never has a follow up shot how did he take out a 4 man team? :idunno:

 

[Tgace]

Although it looks like a Canadian holds the record.

Now we need to work on the all-time record, set recently in Afghanistan by the Canadians. The longest-ever confirmed sniper kill was made by Master Cpl. Arron Perry of the Canadian Armed Forces in Afghanistan in 2003. Perry used a .50-caliber MacMillan TAC-50 rifle to kill an Afghan soldier from a distance of 2,430 metres. Translation to tangible terms = about 1.5 miles!!! The bullet was in the air for four seconds and dropped 146 feet. I didn't even know scopes could be adjusted for such drop, maybe Perry used "Kentucky windage"? The Canadian broke the record held by the legendary "White Feather", Carlos Hathcock. Perry's shot was 250 meters longer than Carlos Hathcock's famous "running kid and bike" shot in Viet Nam.

Darn Canuks!

 

[Flatlander]

:CTF:

Ohhh yeah. Must have been a prairie boy - used to shooting in a stiff breeze. In the air for over 4 seconds? 146 foot drop? Holy crap.

 

[Adept]

Although it looks like a Canadian holds the record.

Darn Canuks!

Heh, I can just imagine the few seconds after the shot.

"Damn, Perry, that was an amazing shot!"

"What are you talking about? I was aiming for the jeep..."

 

[MA-Caver]

To me it sounds a lot like the famous Russian sniper Vassili Zaitsev (WWII) who terrorized the Germans in Stalingrad. But since they don't know this particular sniper's nationality or even appearance he could be anyone. For sure it's going to demoralize American troops and build up Iraqi propaganda which makes the jobs of American soldiers that much harder with copy-cat snipers and so-forth. There may even be more than one "Juba".
Either way it is going to make things difficult, over there.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Heh, I can just imagine the few seconds after the shot.

"Damn, Perry, that was an amazing shot!"

"What are you talking about? I was aiming for the jeep..."

You know that' show that went down. "I was aiming for the jee....uh, yeah, nice shot, huh. Right where I meant it to hit."

As for this urban legend sniper, it just shows what links the "I don't really hate America" left will go to for a hero. This story has been recycled and recirculating and mutating for about 2 years now. It started out being a group of plain marines. Now it's mutated to a 4 man Marine Sniper team because the author wants it to look like this guy took out the best the US has to offer.

It's kind of sad, when you think about it, that the "we don't really hate America" fringe has to manufacture an enemy sniper hero. Just looking at the shear number of times this article has been recirculated by radical leftist websites tells me everything I need to know about who the enemy is.

The fact that these morons are even impressed by the notion of a 200 meter hit show's their complete lack of a clue. As far as 200 meter hits are concerned, I can hit a man with a rifled slug (It'll hit the body somewhere) at 200 meters with bead sites. Nothing astounding there. I have a buddy who's a retired trooper on the Missouri State Highway Patrol pistol team who could put body shots in a target at 100 meters with a Glock .40. A former Marine Sniper turned SERT buddy of mine practices at 100 to 200 meters shooting at empty shell casings. Those guys NEVER miss at 200 meters. A decent sniper rifle has a 1/2 moa level of accuracy, meaning a one inch variation at 200 meters, and that's the level of accuracy of Marine Snipers.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I noticed that a few names were "quoted" as sources for comments on the sniper, but no names were given of the alleged victim soldiers and marines killed. This is likely because that information is easily varifiable, and would show the whole article to be a sham.

There is a small smidgen of truth to part of the article. 6 marine snipers were killed, but not by a single enemy sniper. They were ambushed in their hide.

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?ts=1&display=rednews/2005/08/06/build/nation/30-casualties.inc
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/109093.php
http://billroggio.com/

I guess 4 marines getting killed by one sniper sounds better than the truth, that they got ambushed by a large number of insurgents and overwhelmed. Snipers are not equipped to engage in a fire-fight. A bolt action rifle doesn't do much good against advancing squads of men. You lose stealth and surprise, you lose the initiative.

 

[Tgace]

God forbid if the media made an American serviceman a hero for killing the enemy though. For some reason I doubt we will ever see a Sgt. York or Audie Murphy ever again....

 

[sgtmac_46]

God forbid if the media made an American serviceman a hero for killing the enemy though. For some reason I doubt we will ever see a Sgt. York or Audie Murphy ever again....

That would be jingoistic. It's much more sophisticated and progressive to fantasize about the enemy.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

One of the instructors in my school is a CIRT sergeant knows some guys who've worked over there (he knows LOTS of people, it seems)...he says he's heard a little bit about this "Juba" guy, but hasn't the low down yet. I'm waiting to hear more, if he can get it.

He's of the opinion, as am I, that they'll get him if its one person. There'll be more sniping though. I wouldn't doubt they've put some prices on US servicemen's heads. Wouldn't be a bad idea for us...give a US sniper team a bonus for nailing Juba, or Juba wannabes.


Regards,


Steve

 

[sgtmac_46]

One of the instructors in my school is a CIRT sergeant knows some guys who've worked over there (he knows LOTS of people, it seems)...he says he's heard a little bit about this "Juba" guy, but hasn't the low down yet. I'm waiting to hear more, if he can get it.

He's of the opinion, as am I, that they'll get him if its one person. There'll be more sniping though. I wouldn't doubt they've put some prices on US servicemen's heads. Wouldn't be a bad idea for us...give a US sniper team a bonus for nailing Juba, or Juba wannabes.


Regards,


Steve

I'm sure there's been a few snipers floating around, but I think his exploits have been embellished in this article. The "2 dead Marine snipers team" sounds suspiciously close to the 2 teams ambushed above. It sounds like they just attributed that to "Juba" as well.

What's most likely happen is that several different snipers are getting credit as one person for the sake of having a poster boy for the insurgency.

 

[Andrew Green]

Yes, the people over there believe it is one really good guy, but we intenet jockies, we know better....

 

[Tgace]

Having been deployed overseas myself. Being "over there" makes you no less likely to heed rumor and myth than someone over here. To the contrary, myths spread faster amongst the troops.

 

[KenpoTex]

I personally find it hard to believe that ONE sniper could take out a 4-man Marine sniper team. Not saying it couldn't happen, just that it's hard to believe. If there is such a person, It wouldn't surprise me if he's some sort of mercenary (ex-russian army?). Someone with the level of skill/training to pull off that kind of hit doesn't sound like the typical AK-wavin' **MOD. NOTE - RACIAL SLUR REMOVED TO CONFORM WITH POLICY - SHESULSA**.

The Canadian broke the record held by the legendary "White Feather", Carlos Hathcock. Perry's shot was 250 meters longer than Carlos Hathcock's famous "running kid and bike" shot in Viet Nam.

Yeah, but what was the Canadian's guy doing (was he moving or stationary) when he shot him??? And, IIRC (from his book and an interview I saw), Hathcock actually made the shot twice. The first time, he just shot the bike (while they were moving). It wasn't untill the kid started spraying with an AK that he shot the kid. Anybody interested in military/sniper history that hasn't read Marine Sniper (Hathcock's story) is missing out.

 

[michaeledward]

I personally find it hard to believe that ONE sniper could take out a 4-man Marine sniper team. Not saying it couldn't happen, just that it's hard to believe. If there is such a person, It wouldn't surprise me if he's some sort of mercenary (ex-russian army?). Someone with the level of skill/training to pull off that kind of hit doesn't sound like the typical AK-wavin' **MOD. NOTE - RACIAL SLUR REMOVED TO CONFORM WITH POLICY - SHESULSA**.

Yeah, but what was the Canadian's guy doing (was he moving or stationary) when he shot him??? And, IIRC (from his book and an interview I saw), Hathcock actually made the shot twice. The first time, he just shot the bike (while they were moving). It wasn't untill the kid started spraying with an AK that he shot the kid. Anybody interested in military/sniper history that hasn't read Marine Sniper (Hathcock's story) is missing out.

"AK-wavin' **MOD. NOTE - RACIAL SLUR REMOVED TO CONFORM WITH POLICY - SHESULSA**" ? ?

I suppose the first rule of warfare is to 'de-humanize the enemy'. Still.