A sad state of affairs...

[Buka]

First time I ever saw BJJ we were learning striking on the ground. Always loved old school.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If the opponent commits to rushing you, that is your chance to move forward at the same time.

Agree on this 100%. IMO, this area has not been fully developed into the most detail yet. When this area has been fully developed, MMA will move into a new level.

 

[Anarax]

Thing is that Bjj has traditionally trained students on how to grapple with strikers, it's part of what made Royce Gracie capable of winning the early UFCs, and is part of the reason Bjj became a staple of MMA. There is no puzzle here, we're just simply dealing with lost knowledge in some Bjj schools that focus on competition over practical application of the martial art. Again, in my old school, we were taught how to grapple against strikers in our fundamental classes when you were a zero stripe white belt.

Dealing with strikes is one thing, but dealing with a trained boxer is difficult regardless of your style. Grappling techniques from any style will not be effective if the student isn't psychologically conditioned to handle strikes. I see your point about the difference between old school bjj and the more sport-oriented style.

 

[Hanzou]

Dealing with strikes is one thing, but dealing with a trained boxer is difficult regardless of your style. Grappling techniques from any style will not be effective if the student isn't psychologically conditioned to handle strikes. I see your point about the difference between old school bjj and the more sport-oriented style.

Eh, we've seen professional matches where pure striking went up against pure grappling, and the latter did just fine.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Dealing with strikes is one thing, but dealing with a trained boxer is difficult regardless of your style. Grappling techniques from any style will not be effective if the student isn't psychologically conditioned to handle strikes. I see your point about the difference between old school bjj and the more sport-oriented style.

If A concentrates 100% in defense, It's very difficult for B's punch to land on A's head.

How many chances that Muhammad Ali can obtain a successful 'clinch" during his rope-a-dope strategy? He only needs 1 successful clinch, take his opponent down, and end that stand up game.

I do believe "anti-striking" is possible. It's as simple as "arms wrapping", or "double over hooks".

If you can achieve this, it will be difficult for your opponent to punch you after that.

 

[ShotoNoob]

So I'm watching this video in absolute shock. A blue belt in Bjj being unable to do a basic takedown on a standing opponent despite having ample opportunity. I don't know what the rules were for this exercise, but no one grabbed a sleeve, under hooked, gripped the back of the neck, clenched, went for a single leg, or anything. It seemed like they were all doing some lazy waist grab.

So what's the cause of this? Is this all because of sport Bjj, or is something else occurring here?

It's Dojo Americana, they've solved the MMA over TMA issue and over BBJ too. MMA schools always have an answer. Dojo American, booyah!

I'll keep it short and provide the correct answer to the BJJ Blue Belt's dilemma (like I always too!). The BJJ Blue Belt doesn't know what to do. Answer.

 

[ShotoNoob]

Blue belts have holes in their game .

No Steve, you are dead wrong. The Dojo Americana instructor told you straight away what's wrong. A BJJ practitioner is just not going to have any success unless that practitioner can do take downs.

So Steve, you missed the solution, Dojo Americana spelled it right out. Oh, wrestling has the take downs you need to practice those. And MMA too. Yes, the answer for BBJ faultiness is wrestling & MMA, doing that.

 

[ShotoNoob]

Check out the Gracie challenge vids. Old school Bjj did just fine against strikers of various caliber. Royce took down competitive boxers and kickboxers in a little over a minute in the old UFC.

Something's changed, and I think it's because of the sport scene.

AAAAWWWWHHH come on. The earlier Gracie vids were just as bogus as Dojo Americana. Royce Gracie again & again.

Here's a WMMA vid of a wrestling (sorry BJJ) of is it BJJ [help me out grappler's] take down off a lazy round kick to the waist.
Pennington vs. Evinger TUF 18 Elimination (FULL FIGHT)
29,056 views

The Ultimate Fighter
Published on Sep 24, 2013

MMA's great as showing up poor technique. Lesson: Crap striking, particularly kicks will get you countered by a take down. Don't be a crap striker against a decent grappler. The grappler will use your crap striking to take you down. Simple.

I think that's Raquel Pennington with the leg grab, then single leg trip. Very nice on her part. All takes place very soon into the fight.

 

[Steve]

No Steve, you are dead wrong. The Dojo Americana instructor told you straight away what's wrong. A BJJ practitioner is just not going to have any success unless that practitioner can do take downs.

So Steve, you missed the solution, Dojo Americana spelled it right out. Oh, wrestling has the take downs you need to practice those. And MMA too. Yes, the answer for BBJ faultiness is wrestling & MMA, doing that.

I do not understand. Are you trying to be sarcastic?

 

[Headhunter]

AAAAWWWWHHH come on. The earlier Gracie vids were just as bogus as Dojo Americana. Royce Gracie again & again.

Here's a WMMA vid of a wrestling (sorry BJJ) of is it BJJ [help me out grappler's] take down off a lazy round kick to the waist.
Pennington vs. Evinger TUF 18 Elimination (FULL FIGHT)
29,056 views

The Ultimate Fighter
Published on Sep 24, 2013

MMA's great as showing up poor technique. Lesson: Crap striking, particularly kicks will get you countered by a take down. Don't be a crap striker against a decent grappler. The grappler will use your crap striking to take you down. Simple.

I think that's Raquel Pennington with the leg grab, then single leg trip. Very nice on her part. All takes place very soon into the fight.

Okay if Mma striking is so bad and you're so much better how about you go fight in a local Mma league and post the video I could do with a few laughs

 

[ShotoNoob]

Isnt it just what we discussed on the other thread ? Bjj isnt particularly effective against a good striker with good movement

Glad to see your finally talking about me. Except good movement isn't necessary. See kumite vids.

Dojo Americana though has schooled Manchester, England however. The narrator told you, tells you, that you might have to set up the take down with [some kind] of strikes. One might have to do that. As opposed to the BJJ guy just going in stupidly hesitant with his hands limp, exactly the same as the limp-handed strikers in those early Gracie videos.

Ironic, same coin, opposite sides. What, 25 or more years later. MMA, we have to mix martial art in a blender to get any thing right.

 

[ShotoNoob]

I do not understand. Are you trying to be sarcastic?

I hope I've judged you right. I mean I think I have.

 

[ShotoNoob]

Okay if Mma striking is so bad and you're so much better how about you go fight in a local Mma league and post the video I could do with a few laughs

OHhhh, the tough guy challenge match approach. Like the assistant head instructor @ the dojo. He wanted to be No. 1 too, so picked on those he profiled as weaker to make it so.

I'm not superior like you, so no matter what I did (or have accomplished), no doubt it would come up short. And yes, MMA striking is bad. Except for yours, of course. Tez is ok, though.

EDIT: Excuse while I complete my viewing of the OP video.

 

[Headhunter]

OHhhh, the tough guy challenge match approach. Like the assistant head instructor @ the dojo. He wanted to be No. 1 too, so picked on those he profiled as weaker to make it so.

I'm not superior like you, so no matter what I did (or have accomplished), no doubt it would come up short. And yes, MMA striking is bad. Except for yours, of course. Tez is ok, though.

Um I don't do Mma genius. I'm not challenging you I'm saying that if you think it's so bad why don't you go show how bad it is

 

[ShotoNoob]

Tony, the first paragraph I didn't quote was priceless. BJJ schools too grabby in their practice, just like karate schools too punchy in their practice. Huh, sad state of affairs all over.

I do agree with the narrator that this sort of exercise is much easier for the grappler if they also have some experience with striking. That experience makes them more comfortable getting into the pocket for a good shot instead of putting their head down and rushing in from out of range the way most of the students in the video were trying to do.

But Tony, this is not at all what those magnificent Gracie's said in their original, MMA competitor / striker smashing videos. They said point blank that the striker CANNOT stop the grappler's advance & gets taken down, PERIOD. How we have grown.

Hey, I do want to step up an support your lead in sentence. Makes all the sense in the world. Yet really Tony, the BJJ guys in the Dojo American we doing that same play acting fighting that MMA and such complains about in TMA videos.

Take a look at the boxer, who snaps out some hard jabs. Ouch. Isn't he kinda wide open for a a boxer straight punch or even maybe a linear up the middle karate punch? Dojo Americana proclaims he's a skilled boxer, so I guess he's perfectly safe, with his head leaning forward, chin out hands down, tossing wide punches. I forgot to add in those big padded boxing gloves, you know the 'same' we see in MMA and karate, afford high-level protection.

 

[Buka]

I do not understand. Are you trying to be sarcastic?

Steve.....\ I think there's a lot of \ in his opinions.

Do you remember \ from a few years back?

 

[ShotoNoob]

Um I don't do Mma genius. I'm not challenging you I'm saying that if you think it's so bad why don't you go show how bad it is

OH Headhunter. There you go changing the subject. The Wrestling TD / Striker video was about MMA; not about YOU.

On the showing, well we do have kumite in the dojo in karate. And as is reality, we do have kick boxer stylists, boxers, muay Thai, MMA types participating in karate in karate dojos who employ their style in kumite in the dojo. So yes, I have come up against all these.

Point two, I've posted innumerable, detained subject matter explaining karate & same. BUT, you have to read it.

 

[ShotoNoob]

Steve.....\ I think there's a lot of \ in his opinions.

Do you remember \ from a few years back?

Problem solved. Waiting?

 

[Headhunter]

OH Headhunter. There you go changing the subject. The Wrestling TD / Striker video was about MMA; not about YOU.

On the showing, well we do have kumite in the dojo in karate. And as is reality, we do have kick boxer stylists, boxers, muay Thai, MMA types participating in karate in karate dojos who employ their style in kumite in the dojo. So yes, I have come up against all these.

Point two, I've posted innumerable, detained subject matter explaining karate & same. BUT, you have to read it.

I don't think anyone here understands a word you're talking about buddy and actually your the one that bought up Mma by saying how bad it is

 

[ShotoNoob]

Plus the more room you have to move, the more it favours the stiker, , stick them in a tight space were you can trap them in a corner and it may have had a different iut come or maybe not, they seemed to loose enthuiasm arter they had eated a couple of stiff jabs

Picking up on Dojo American, yes there was room for the combatants to move around. The part you left out though, was if the boxer is moving all over, he can't strike.

Right?