a punch out of the blue



today at school, i saw a fight at school. these 2 guys were arguing and one just hit the other out of nowhere. the guy who got hit started to stare at him eye to eye for 2 seconds then got hit again. then he was attacked again until he was on the floor. in my opinion, this guy was probalbly stunned. i thought to myself, if that was me, what would i do? should i react instantly or get into stance?

i always watch out for these types of things. any trouble and ill avoid it at its early stage. but some ppl just like to continue...and eventually, it gets down to a fight
I would say that, after you got hit, you would have one of two options (assuming you were still standing and had not been knocked out):

1) Hit back and continue the fight, or
2) Walk away from the fight

Depending on a multitude of factors, either could work. However, I personally think that I would *shoot* for #2 and just try to walk away. If the other guy is so frustrated that he is going to start swinging, then the chances of talking to change his mind are seemingly pretty slim. Time to diffuse the situation, if possible.

Again, however, it's going to depend on the situation.

If you *have* to react with a counter, I wouldn't suggest getting into stance--use the element of surprise to your advantage. Respond quickly as possible, and use as little as possible. This kind of situation calls for *stopping* the other guy, not killing or maiming him. Perhaps a joint-lock, or something similar. Not worth breaking bones or poking eyes out over, I would think. Your response would have to depend on your training.

Anyway, I'm starting to ramble again, so I'll stop.....

Where was your instructor when this happened? The other
students? Why was more than one punch even allowed by
those present? Has any action been taken after the fact?
Kirk, I don't think he is talking about his martial arts school.

I can easily see this happening in the halls of my old high school.

You mean martial art school or other?
I first got the idea it was not MA school?

If they both were arguing,it could be that they agreed to clash at each other at some level unless the victim was trying to calm him down.
If he kept arguing,he probably did a mistake for doing that.
If we now suppose that he was trying to break out of the situation which would be martial artist織s true choise.
He should talk calmly and without emotions blocking his way.
He should make clear he does not want to fight,this is even more beneficial if there are other people around witnessing the situation.
He should be aware and keep his zone of safety.
If needed,he could assume neutral,non-offending defense stance (bring his hands up for guard,palms facing opponent,no fist formed,one foot stepped back to give lesser target and offer protection and root)
If opponent telegraphs an attack,which involves rushing to approach him reaching his personal space,start swinging near him (this could be if he misses or does it out of anger),or lifts his hand up for a strike,grabs etc.
In that point he should defend himself immediately without hesitating,which means taking him out in a way or another.
Some arts teach one to always land the first hit for element of surprise or safety.That first punch that lands may decide who is going to walk away.

Just some of my tips.
Oh, my bad, I ***-U-MEd he meant M.A. School. In THAT case,
once the intent was made that he was looking for a fight, I don't
think walking away in a sense that he should've turned his back
on him would be a good idea. Just my opinion.
You make a good point, Kirk.

I wouldn't necessarily turn my back on the guy, since I wouldn't want to be whupped on the backside of my head. However, I would still try to "walk away" in the general sense, i.e., get out of the situation without trading strikes, if at all possible.

I'd rather not fling fists over schoolyard-type situations. They just ain't worth it.

i meant high school

so doing a disabling or teach-a-lesson move without severly injuring the guy would be the best answer. then let him go. IMO, i think beating the guy up would be a tough guy act, but doing a move and letting him go would seem like a "peaceful but dont mess with me" act:asian:
How would hitting back be peaceful?

If I were in the situation, which I wouldn't be, I would get back up, walk right up to the guy (hands at chest level NOT in a fist to protect myself from any further punches) and tell him NEVER to do that again. You say it with enough strength and they'll never do it again. I doubt I'd attack him back unless I really feared for my life. Pride is one thing, a lawsuit is another.
I wouldn't say that a "don't mess with me" move would be the best answer. What would probably work best would be to keep blocking anything that the guy throws, if you can't walk away.

I hate to be corny and bring this up, but I feel it is a pretty good way to put it. There is a statement from one of the masters at the Shaolin temple, where Kwai Chang Kane is studying in the (original) movie "Kung Fu". It goes something like this:

"Avoid, rather than check. Check, rather than hurt. Hurt, rather than maim. Maim, rather than kill. For all life is sacred, nor can any be replaced."

In a schoolyard, you should be able to get away at least somewhat decently. If not, try to block and call attention to the situation (bullies are like cockroaches--they hate the attention). If all this fails, *then* use a *very* controlled move--something just to briefly incapacitate--to say "please don't". Only if it gets seriously threatening should return striking be used.

As has been said.....lose pride before face a lawsuit, or injury yourself.

I doubt muay thai has enough experience to just be like those kung fu people on TV who block everything with one hand. It takes a lot of skill and if I remember, muaythaiperson is rather new to the art.

Just be assertive and tell him not to do it again. If he comes back, that's up to you, but the best way to settle it is without fighting.
woulnt it be self defense to hit back? the lawsuit isnt right
Well I hate to say it, but in high school I used to hate the guys who would start trouble and then get in your face and stare at you. So I would have to say that the guy who hit first did a fine job. If your going to fight do it right. If the other guy was not ready, well then thats his fault. He should not have stared the other kid down. Just try that with your pet cat. The cats going to jump you, at least all mine do. But as for being on the recieving end of the punch. If you can't block it in time, then you roll with the punch, count your losses and return fire. If I hit someone and they picked there self up and told me that I had better not do that again, well I would have hit him again. But I would do it mid sentance. Odds are that he would not be able to block and talk at the same time. Talk is cheap. But I would most likely not be in that situation to begin with. I dont start trouble. But if you find your self in that situation. I would stay out of punching range to begin with. If you can touch him, then he can touch you. Action verses reaction. Actions going to have the better odds.
Your friend in the arts, Redfive
woulnt it be self defense to hit back? the lawsuit isnt right

You are only partially right, here.

Yes, it could be considered self-defense. However, remember that we are a litigious (lawsuit-happy) society lately, and people are suing each other for just about *anything*.

If you got in a situation where you actually fought back and hurt the guy, and he sued you, you could be in for a rough ride. It would probably get out that you had martial arts training, and the opposition would play that for all it was worth. Even though the other guy started the fight and put you in a bad situation, you could still wind up paying medical bills and compensatory damages.

No, the lawsuit isn't right. But it happens, has happened, and will continue to happen. You have to be careful.

Oh, and it doesn't matter if you are in high school or grade school, either......the "kid" may not sue you directly, but his *parents* may sue on his behalf......

Another reason to walk away from whatever conflicts you can. It isn't considered cowardice, it is considered *wisdom*.

I find that when a guy wants to fight me I quickly take off my pants. In fact, if I can I will take off all my clothes. Guys usually don't want to be seen rolling around on the ground with another naked guy. If you're good and it's a multiple attack scenario you can make it look like they're fighting over you.

Just a few tips from me to all of you about self-defense.
Fighting for peace is like having sex for virginity. Hitting the guy back is not a "peaceful" move.

Originally posted by GouRonin

I find that when a guy wants to fight me I quickly take off my pants. In fact, if I can I will take off all my clothes. Guys usually don't want to be seen rolling around on the ground with another naked guy. If you're good and it's a multiple attack scenario you can make it look like they're fighting over you.

Just a few tips from me to all of you about self-defense.

hehehe .. similar incident happened in my presence before. A
buddy of mine and I, just out of high school, were hanging out
at the mall, pubescently looking at girls as they walked by, when
these 6 or 7 thugs came up, starting ****. One guy (I guess the
leader) says to my friend, "how 'bout I kick jore leetle ***, wero?"
(wero is spanish for honkey). My friend says nothing, just looks
around, and assesses the situation. He puts a finger to his lips,
does the old "brbrbrbrbrbr" and SKIPS off! That smart bastard
SKIPPED at the mall! :rofl: I heard "that mother effer's crazy!"
as they all walked off.
I'd say don't get into a stance if someone threatens you. its a very obvious challenge, and most bullies, because they have fragile self esteem to begin with, will not back down in front of their peers if challenged in this way. if you go into a stance, you're probably gonna get hit.

Just look them in the eyes, and try to make it look like you won't be so easy a mark, and most of the time, the bully will extricate himself from the situation to save face, because he doesn't want to lose.

(this is coming from a teacher here, so take it as you please) I would advise you in a school situation to not ever throw the first punch, and if you're gonna hit back, make sure there are lots of witnesses around so you don't get sued. If someone hits you, you're gonna get suspended anyway, because legally, schools are required to suspend everyone involved in the fight, even if they were just defending themselves. I would also advise you, that if hit, with appropriate witnesses, to open up an appropriately responsive can of whoop-****. by appropriately responsive, I mean that if he takes a swing at you, use non lethal, non damaging strikes. groin shots and stomach shots are good. knock him down, knock the wind out of him. don't maim or kill. when the administration asks you about it, the correct response is "he came at me and threw a punch...I thought he was gonna kill me or something!" you need to establish immediately that you acted in self defense and were afraid for your personal welfare. If you are taken to the office, you need to ask that your parents be called. Mom and dad are your best allies in this situation. also, teachers are aware of who's bullying. they're not stupid, and they can easily identify their problem students. however, until something happens, their hands are tied in most situations, but if a known bully is picking on you, the administration will back you as much as they can.
There was a little instruction book that came out after the movie "Forrest Gump"....supposedly, wisdom from the "master" himself. In this book was the advice: (paraphrased, of course)

"If you are going to get in a fight, first, whang yourself in the head with a frying pan. This will make the other guy think that if you are willing to do that to yourself, what would you do to *him*"

I think that kinda goes along the lines that Gou mentions, although it isn't quite as visual a picture.....*shudder* :eek:



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