A new "Bin-Laden" tape...

[Makalakumu]

This is the "weirdest" one yet. It's a convenient wonder that UBL would say all of this stuff...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20640658/

SYDNEY, Australia - President Bush said Saturday that Osama bin Laden's first video appearance in three years is a reminder of "the dangerous world in which we live."

Yes, Mr. President. We are afraid. It is our patriotic duty.

"I found it interesting that on the tape, Iraq was mentioned, which is a reminder that Iraq is a part of this war against extremists," Bush said. "If al-Qaida bothers to mention Iraq, it's because they want to achieve their objectives in Iraq, which is to drive us out and to develop a safe haven. And the reason they want a safe haven is to launch attacks against America or any other ally."

Thanks, Mr. Newsman. Gee, it would be nice to actually see what UBL said, but I guess your summary is good enough. I think we should stay in iraq for at least 1000 years now...

“You elected the Democratic Party for this purpose," he says, according to a translated transcript of the tape. “On the contrary, they continue to agree to spending of tens of billions to continue the killings and the war there.”

UBL is a nastly little truthseeing bastard. I think that someone has a pretty clear picture of what most liberals fear when they turn the light off at night...

He goes on to deride Bush, saying Washington was backing Shiites against Sunnis in Iraq but that events in Iraq had gotten "out of control," and Bush had become "like the one who plows and sows the sea: he harvests nothing but failure."

My fellow Amuricanz, UBL is a lyin' terrarist. Neva mind the man behin' the curtain."

Bin Laden also recommends reading books by American authors Noam Chomsky and Michael Scheuer, a former CIA analyst. Chomsky's book cites various examples of American imperialism, while Scheuer's book argues that the U.S. does not understand the Islamic predicament.

Hey, didn't Hugo Chavez cite those books? Now, it's UBL! Man, someone better throw those guys into some sort of prison or something. I beleive that Senator Graham mentioned something about a "fifth" column...

Bin Laden urges the U.S to embrace Islam if they want the war in Iraq to end.

"There are two solutions to stopping it. One is from our side, and it is to escalate the fighting and killing against you. This is our duty, and our brothers are carrying it out," bin Laden says, according to the transcript.

"The second solution is from your side," he says. "I invite you to embrace Islam."

UBL found the perfect thing to tell the "christian" nation. I'm sure 80 million people will be out there praying on Sunday that this doesn't happen. Meanwhile, they continue to support the permanent bases in Iraq...

The United States intercepted the video before it was released on Islamic Web sites where al-Qaida usually posts its messages, a U.S. counterterrorism official said, without elaborating on how. U.S. officials analyzed the video for hours before transcripts and videos were leaked, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

Now THAT is really ****ing interesting...

The release of the video may have been driven by reports that bin Laden is dead, NBC News' Robert Windrem said. U.S. intelligence officials have been quoted, as they were before the 2004 tape, as saying there are equal bodies of evidence that bin Laden was alive or dead.

Al-Qaida’s media arm, Al-Sahab, announced bin Laden’s new message in a banner advertisement on an Islamic militant Web site that included a photo of him.

“Soon, God willing, a videotape from the lion sheik Osama bin Laden, God preserve him,” the advertisement read, signed by Al-Sahab. Such announcements are usually put out one to three days before the video is posted on the Web.

One difference in bin Laden's appearance was immediately obvious. The video showed bin Laden's beard fully black. In his past videos, bin Laden’s beard was almost entirely gray with dark streaks.

Bin Laden’s beard appears to have been dyed, a popular practice among Arab leaders, said Rita Katz, director of the SITE Institute, a Washington-based group that monitors terror messages.

“I think it works for their (al-Qaida’s) benefit that he looks young, he looks healthy,” Katz said.

The beard issue is probably the most interesting thing about all of the news reports about the latest UBL video. They always make sure to tell us that that lots of "officials" think the UBL is dead, but then they say that he just might be alive. Then they point out the beard and say stuff like "Oh, he might be a fake BL, but he might be real because Arabs often dye their beards."

Especially when they are "supposedly running from cave to cave in Pakistan with the most advance military on earth bent on killing him...

Or all of this beard stuff is just a liar going into a few too many details...

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Maybe he had an aide stop at one of the new Walmarts in the hills there and pick him up some "Just For Men"? Personally, I'm surprise The King remembered who he was. Musta been briefed before hand.

Hey, isn't there an election coming up soon? Weren't there rumblings abut this time last year too? You don't suppose there's a connection do ya?

*BOO*

Booga Booga.

Now remember, Vote Republican so the mean nasty man stays away, and don't look too closely at those vote creating I mean counting machines.

 

[Makalakumu]

Apparently, some people think the video is a fake...

http://www.infowars.net/articles/september2007/100907BinLaden.htm

The newly released Osama Bin Laden video is a an iron clad forgery, and not even a good one at that. All references to current events made by the figure said to be Bin Laden occur at a point in the video where the picture freezes and only audio is present. Bin Laden also presents a pre recorded martyrdom video of one of the alleged 9/11 hijackers, Waleed al Shehri, who was reported by the BBC as still alive and well in Saudi Arabia.

Osama Bin Laden's widely publicized video address to the American people has a peculiarity that casts serious doubt on its authenticity: the video freezes at about 1 minute and 58 seconds, and motion only resumes again at 12:30. The video then freezes again at 14:02 remains frozen until the end. All references to current events, such as the 62nd anniversary of the U.S. atomic bombing of Japan, and Sarkozy and Brown being the leaders of France and the UK, respectively, occur when the video is frozen! The words spoken when the video is in motion contain no references to contemporary events and could have been (and likely were) made before the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

The audio track does appear to be in the voice of a single speaker. What I suspect was done is that an older, unreleased video was dubbed over for this release, with the video frozen when the audio track departed from that of the original video.

 

[MA-Caver]

FINALLY ... Bin-Laden...the Sequel! Yay!


oh brother... would it give a clue as to where the bastard is?

 

[grydth]

Life living in remote Pakistani caves pursued by Predators seems to be rejuvenating Oslima.... maybe there are spas unknown to infidels in some of them.

It would be so nice to see the xxx fry tomorrow....

 

[Makalakumu]

Life living in remote Pakistani caves pursued by Predators seems to be rejuvenating Oslima.... maybe there are spas unknown to infidels in some of them.

It would be so nice to see the xxx fry tomorrow....

How do we really know that UBL is alive?

 

[grydth]

It seems that al-Qaeda leaders make reference to current events to prove their videos are not old or pre-recorded.

The wider point, though, I think is valid - sad how little we do seem to know about them with reasonable certainty or detail.

 

[Makalakumu]

hmmm, this is a sad anonymous comment...

Honestly, to see this post on 9-11 is just unreal. There are such things as stupid questions, and this is one of the best examples. Or are we in for a conspiracy theory?

I ask a question and that's what I get in response from somebody. I think they are missing a crucial point, but then again some people just accept everything they are told without reservation.

Honestly, aren't you just a little suspicious of the timing and circumstances surrounding this tape? Here it is, 9/11, and how convenient is it for us to see this man's face?

At the very least, this kind of fear mongering and exploitation is really really sad.

I don't think the tape is real. I think that some of it our all it is a forgery. I think the powers that be are exploiting 9/11 again, in order to make people do what they want.

If anybody thinks thats insulting, imagine how I feel? I used to have a lot of pride in my country. Now I'm just afraid, but it's not UBL that makes me afraid. Its our leaders.

 

[Mr. E]

hmmm, this is a sad anonymous comment...Honestly, aren't you just a little suspicious of the timing and circumstances surrounding this tape? Here it is, 9/11, and how convenient is it for us to see this man's face?

Uh, yeah. He wants to rub it in our face about the attacks and his war against us and so he should release it at any other time other than the anniversery of 9-11.

 

[grydth]

hmmm, this is a sad anonymous comment...



I ask a question and that's what I get in response from somebody. I think they are missing a crucial point, but then again some people just accept everything they are told without reservation.

Honestly, aren't you just a little suspicious of the timing and circumstances surrounding this tape? Here it is, 9/11, and how convenient is it for us to see this man's face?

At the very least, this kind of fear mongering and exploitation is really really sad.

I don't think the tape is real. I think that some of it our all it is a forgery. I think the powers that be are exploiting 9/11 again, in order to make people do what they want.

If anybody thinks thats insulting, imagine how I feel? I used to have a lot of pride in my country. Now I'm just afraid, but it's not UBL that makes me afraid. Its our leaders.

Your questions and points are reasonable, and deserve more than slagging. But consider...

I do think the tape is real.

If the tape in question were fake...al-Qaeda has proven access to multiple and varied media outlets - So where are the enraged denials of infidel forgery? Bush has unlimited enemies - everywhere - so where's the scientific proof?

It makes (insane) sense for UBL to exploit 9/11... it was his major murderous success. The anniversary is a great time to remind the Great Satan that nobody is safe.

I am also aware of the allegations that Bush has used UBL for election advantage - but there's no major American election this November.

 

[Sukerkin]

That's a good (and balanced) point. Grydth.

I really hope that I don't upset anyone when I say that, from historical experience, I am more than ready to believe that a major political figure will use any means to strengthen his/her hold on power (invade Iraq, 're-take' the Falklands, permit the destruction of cities, invent 'straw-man' enemies, perpetrate self-inflicted 'wounds' et al to incite desired public responses).

It is, however, true that in the case of something like the destruction of the WTC and its negative repercussions on the 'terrorist' cause, you would think that those 'falsely' accused of it would strongly protest through the channels available to them if Western Media Manipulation (TM) was being used to further undermine them.

It is true that in those areas of the world that support the Islamic Cause (apologies to 'proper' Islamics for that phrase) then defiant rhetoric can win points. But fanatical emotions do not deflect nuclear strikes (or 'lesser 'military responses) so I cannot see that bona fide countries with something to lose would be all that pleased to be associated with acts that could draw such adverse attention.

After all, as an example, Iran has huffed and puffed recently but nothing more. Why? Because not so long ago they saw the enemy that they had fought unsuccessfully for so long be militarily expunged in very short order. Do they want to invite the same (potential nuclear deterrent or no)?

Anyhow, I'm rambling as I ever do on such complicated issues .

My personal opinion is that I simply don't know. I can construct logical arguments for both sides of a story here but I have no evidence for either. My gut tells me that there is no 'War on terror' but rather a shabbier 'War for Resources and Control'. It's happened before and it (may) happen again. The only truth is that those who have nothing to gain will be the ones to pay the price (that's my Grandfathers tuppence worth for you ).

 

[Makalakumu]

Uh, yeah. He wants to rub it in our face about the attacks and his war against us and so he should release it at any other time other than the anniversery of 9-11.

Here's a the little logical twist in the official line that no one ever seems to think about. 9/11 was probably the very worst thing that ever happened to Al-Qaeda. Most of their major operations have been disrupted. Most of their membership killed. And all of their money is all but gone. That is if you listen to what the media is telling us about Al-Qaeda out of one side of their mouth. (It kinda makes one wonder why we should continue to be so afraid of them, but that's another story)

What good is it really going to do? Most likely its just going to expose him and kick a hornets nest the size of the giza pyramid. And I don't think it's too inspiring for the young radical to watch these folks get hunted down by any means neccessary.

UBL doesn't have anything to gain and everything to lose by such a venture...

 

[Makalakumu]

If the tape in question were fake...al-Qaeda has proven access to multiple and varied media outlets - So where are the enraged denials of infidel forgery? Bush has unlimited enemies - everywhere - so where's the scientific proof?

A couple of things that revolve around the axiom "the absence of evidence isn't evidence of its absense."

1. The large media outlets are fairly controlled when it comes to the information they receive and broadcast. Most don't even have newsrooms and most have cut staff down to the "talking head" level. It's gotten so bad that these outlets often just report the press releases given to them by our government.

Is it so surprising that we don't hear anything like that from them?

2. Consider the fact that our media outlets are so large and pervasive that they influence opinion on a global level. You can catch CNN, NBC, ABC, the New York Times, Fox in any of these Arab countries...and now, even large Arab outfits like Al-jazeera are being gobbled up by these media conglomerates. So, maybe we don't see any real Arabic analysis of whats going on because they are receiving information exactly like we do. And information is being controlled on a large scale exactly like it is over here.

My guess is that the degree of skepticism is far greater then it is over here in regards to this matter...

 

[Blotan Hunka]

If believing that you are safe because the whole War/Terrorism threat is a sham manufactured by the gvt. helps you sleep at night, I guess we all cope in different ways. Thats what all this conspiracy crap is really about. Im safe because the "threat" is all some made up hoax, my family and friends are all gonna be OK.

Its a mantra.

 

[Makalakumu]

And here's the last thing I'm going to say about this issue tonight...

I want everyone to consider the fact that UBL and Al-Qaeda started with CIA backing. In fact, the CIA was visiting UBL in a hospital in Dubai in August of 2001.

The CIA has a long history of supporting and creating groups like this. It's a strategy that was developed by the British and is widely used by American Intelligence Agencies. Low Intensity Conflict is an umbrella that can comprise many different strategies. However, a famous one is to set up a group that does your dirty work with the same name as a group that you are trying to malign.

A good example of what I'm talking about was described by British General Frank Kitson. He published a manual on the use of countergangs, psuedo-gangs, and psuedo-operations as a counter insurgency strategy. (This, IMHO, has some pretty dark implications for what is probably really happening in Iraq BTW).

Anyway, why would it surprise anyone that the CIA, with such intimate knowledge of Al-Qaeda, would create a counter Al-Qaeda that would drag the real Al-Qaeda's name through the mud? And then, when you control your own Al-Qaeda, why would it be surprising to use this one in a propaganda campaign against your own people?

This link shows that our military establishment takes such tactics very seriously.

The bottom line is that none of this is out of the question...and that is not a pleasant thought.

 

[Makalakumu]

If believing that you are safe because the whole War/Terrorism threat is a sham manufactured by the gvt. helps you sleep at night, I guess we all cope in different ways. Thats what all this conspiracy crap is really about. Im safe because the "threat" is all some made up hoax, my family and friends are all gonna be OK.

Its a mantra.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable, but I could be wrong. And anyway, this sentiment goes the other way too. People want to believe the official line because the alternative is pretty darn terrible.

The reality is that whether I'm right or wrong, there are still some major unpleasent issues along both trains of thought. Either way, I don't think we are just going to be okay.

Thinking about this is certainly not a recipe for good sleep. Good night all...

 

[grydth]

A couple of things that revolve around the axiom "the absence of evidence isn't evidence of its absense."

1. The large media outlets are fairly controlled when it comes to the information they receive and broadcast. Most don't even have newsrooms and most have cut staff down to the "talking head" level. It's gotten so bad that these outlets often just report the press releases given to them by our government.

Is it so surprising that we don't hear anything like that from them?

2. Consider the fact that our media outlets are so large and pervasive that they influence opinion on a global level. You can catch CNN, NBC, ABC, the New York Times, Fox in any of these Arab countries...and now, even large Arab outfits like Al-jazeera are being gobbled up by these media conglomerates. So, maybe we don't see any real Arabic analysis of whats going on because they are receiving information exactly like we do. And information is being controlled on a large scale exactly like it is over here.

My guess is that the degree of skepticism is far greater then it is over here in regards to this matter...

I don't know whose axiom that is, but it is not mine. I analyze the evidence we have, both direct and circumstantial... and then note the lack on any counterclaim whatsoever by the originator or anti-Bush parties.

This video, on its face, has no indicia of being a forgery... (not, say, like the recent French report showing unfired rounds as being used bullets.)

Now, I think it very clear that al-Qaeda has been able to get its messages into the marketplace of ideas very successfully since 9/11. (In a way, I wish you were right and that fewer media outlets would assist the murderers of six years ago today. Enough sympathy for the Devil).

Further, you cannot be seriously contending that there is any absence of critics of the Bush Administration or of the war in the media. From local screechers to the New York Times, one need exert very little effort indeed to find them in great numbers.... show me a reputable source claiming fraud here. Where is the evidence the video is a fraud? Any evidence?

 

[Makalakumu]

Well, here is the video. See for yourself. What do you think would lead some people to believe that the video is faked?

Also, see post #3.

 

[grydth]

Answer me who the "some people" are and "what" evidence points to this being a fake and we'll be getting somewhere.

UBL has everything to gain, and Bush everything to lose.... the video proves that, six years after 9/11, the USA can't kill the chief psycho behind it, and it serves to rekindle the terror that was a main product of 9/11.

 

[Mr. E]

I want everyone to consider the fact that UBL and Al-Qaeda started with CIA backing. In fact, the CIA was visiting UBL in a hospital in Dubai in August of 2001.

:lfao::lfao::lfao::lfao::lfao::lfao::lfao:

Wrong. Go ahead a prove the meeting in Dubai.

Someone :wink2: recently posted this,

True-believer syndrome is a term coined by M. Lamar Keene in his 1976 book The Psychic Mafia. Keene used the term to refer to people who continued to believe in a paranormal event or phenomenon even after it had been proven to have been staged.

Now, in this case you would think that a resonable person would open up their mind and give up their silly conspiracy theories after about the 17th time their smoking gun turned out to be a wet firecracker.

So if someone has thier big professor expert turn out to be involved in astronomy instead of anything involved in explosives or engineering and his university's engineering department says his stuff is seriously flawed, if the article that they say proves that some of the 9-11 hijackers is corrected by the newpaper itself as being a mistake, etc, and yet they still keep trying new things and more elaborate theories to explain how 9-11 could still have been done by the government...

..well they just are not willing to open their mind and admit that they were wrong, driven by hate and not as smart as they wanted everyone to think.