5 reasons TaeKwonDo as a system (not individual techniques) breaks down in a Muay Thai ring

[Tez3]

So you are saying he is acting like most other Millenials.

Sorry but that's a ridiculous thing to say. I mean which ones did you have in mind? The military ones, the medical ones, the teachers, the volunteers? Each of us is responsible for the way we behave it's nothing to do with when we were born, though the USA seems to label people as 'millennials' etc more than anywhere else where we tend not to categorise people in that way, this is probably because the USA is the country of birth of the advertising industry.

 

[Axiom]

I don't know why people don't think that the shortcomings of TaeKwonDo can't be modified? The discussion is if the flaws I outlined are inherent or not. I personally find it difficult to make TKD work without turning it into an American Kickboxing-like system, but I think an argument could be made, surely.

 

[Axiom]

For instance, there is a Kickboxer in my club who loves ITF TaeKwonDo kicks as a complement to his Kickboxing. He decided to learn the forms and get graded now as well. But that is of course different from saying that TKD in and of itself works.

I actually think TKD can really shine when combined with another art, but the objective of this thread is to discuss it separate from other arts.

 

[Tez3]

You know, when I said enough, I meant it. Just stop. When you are in a hole, stop bloody digging.

 

[Axiom]

You know, when I said enough, I meant it. Just stop. When you are in a hole, stop bloody digging.

When you tell me something? You're not my officer...

 

[Axiom]

Why is it digging a hole to examine and question ones own system of martial arts? Am I simply to step in line and get indoctrinated? Sorry, not this guy.

To make a thread pointing out the benefits of TKD does not appeal to me, beause that will only result in preaching to the choir.

This is how intellectuals operate...

 

[Dirty Dog]

I don't know why people don't think that the shortcomings of TaeKwonDo can't be modified? The discussion is if the flaws I outlined are inherent or not. I personally find it difficult to make TKD work without turning it into an American Kickboxing-like system, but I think an argument could be made, surely.

I think it would be more accurate to say that people are unconvinced that you have the expertise to determine a shortcoming of TKD vs a shortcoming of Axiom. Given that many of the people who are pointing out the error of your thinking have been training for 10 times as long as you, perhaps you'd do well to give some thought to your position.

 

[Axiom]

I think it would be more accurate to say that people are unconvinced that you have the expertise to determine a shortcoming of TKD vs a shortcoming of Axiom. Given that many of the people who are pointing out the error of your thinking have been training for 10 times as long as you, perhaps you'd do well to give some thought to your position.

I don't think - X number of years spent in the art = knowledge about the system in a ring/the application of Taekwondo. It all depends on their sparring experience.

I welcome people who have done hard sparring against other striking systems, like I have and continue to do. That way you really test yourself and your system, if you are evenly matched.

 

[Tez3]

Why is it digging a hole to examine and question ones own system of martial arts? Am I simply to step in line and get indoctrinated? Sorry, not this guy.

To make a thread pointing out the benefits of TKD does not appeal to me, beause that will only result in preaching to the choir.

This is how intellectuals operate...

You do not have sufficient experience to examine your own art nor to compare it to other styles of which you have no knowledge.

You seem to have this idea of yourself as some sort of pioneer, do you think martial artists don't examine their style...and themselves?

Your comment about 'intellectuals' is both ignorant and remarkably funny. I'm left shaking my head at your naiveté and your arrogance as this shows...

I don't think - X number of years spent in the art = knowledge about the system in a ring/the application of Taekwondo. It all depends on their sparring experience.

I welcome people who have done hard sparring against other striking systems, like I have and continue to do. That way you really test yourself and your system, if you are evenly matched.

 

[DaveB]

I don't know why people don't think that the shortcomings of TaeKwonDo can't be modified? The discussion is if the flaws I outlined are inherent or not. I personally find it difficult to make TKD work without turning it into an American Kickboxing-like system, but I think an argument could be made, surely.

The fundamental flaw in your viewpoint is the constant conflation of martial art and sport.

An example: the wtf taekwondo I did is not how you use those same taekwondo lessons in a pub. That Olympic style competition is a game that is shaped by the rules. For a Thai boxer to become a good tkd fighter he would have to adapt to be the most efficient he could be within the rules.

Conversely the same is true for a tkd fighter going into muay Thai rules fighting. Neither thing is a fighting style, they are games played differently to one another.
So by comparing them you are saying what if I take my drag racer and put it in a formula 1 race.

The comparison is pointless and says nothing about the art, only the ruleset under which the competitor trains.

That is not to say you can't use combat sports skills or methods in real fighting, but its not the environment that the fighters train for.

Essentially everything is crap except mma, and then only the one's with nearly no rules. That is as close to martial art as you can get.

And yes I acknowledge that traditional training doesn't usually come close to preparing people for that level of fighting, but again:

Training is not martial arts. Training is training.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sorry but that's a ridiculous thing to say. I mean which ones did you have in mind? The military ones, the medical ones, the teachers, the volunteers? Each of us is responsible for the way we behave it's nothing to do with when we were born, though the USA seems to label people as 'millennials' etc more than anywhere else where we tend not to categorise people in that way, this is probably because the USA is the country of birth of the advertising industry.

There's some utility in understanding demographic groups, but it has gone overboard, especially in respect to the Millenials. Business writers, especially, have spent a lot of time and effort talking about how different this generation is. I've been showing people for several years that most of it is more "kids these days" talk - a new form of the same discussions people have had about how young people are (because immature people are different). Most of the points are actually no different from what was said of my dad's generation, except the context has changed (technology, etc.).

And now the oldest Millenials (in their late 30's now) are proving to be much like other adults in the US. They are having kids, buying SUV's, getting houses...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I don't know why people don't think that the shortcomings of TaeKwonDo can't be modified? The discussion is if the flaws I outlined are inherent or not. I personally find it difficult to make TKD work without turning it into an American Kickboxing-like system, but I think an argument could be made, surely.

Yet, when poeple have pointed out where they don't think they are inherent, you argue they are (without evidence) and belittle those who deign to disagree.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Why is it digging a hole to examine and question ones own system of martial arts? Am I simply to step in line and get indoctrinated? Sorry, not this guy.

To make a thread pointing out the benefits of TKD does not appeal to me, beause that will only result in preaching to the choir.

This is how intellectuals operate...

Yet, you cling to your own dogma, rather than hear the words of those around you.

 

[CB Jones]

Sorry but that's a ridiculous thing to say.

Well it was a joke....so yeah...apparently a bad one but a joke none the less.

 

[MA_Student]

I don't know why people don't think that the shortcomings of TaeKwonDo can't be modified? The discussion is if the flaws I outlined are inherent or not. I personally find it difficult to make TKD work without turning it into an American Kickboxing-like system, but I think an argument could be made, surely.

And we've all said they're not real flaws just your opinions

 

[Steve]

You know, when I said enough, I meant it. Just stop. When you are in a hole, stop bloody digging.

Okay, once was charming, but now youre being rude.

 

[TrueJim]

I don't know why people don't think that the shortcomings of TaeKwonDo can't be modified...

I'm not an expert, but I'm under the impression that taekwondo actually DOES tend to evolve more quickly than other traditional martial arts. For example, looking at Sport Poomsae, lots of significant changes are occurring all the time. Or as another example, sparring rules change fairly frequently as federations attempt to fine-tune their sports. The last decade especially has seen a big uptick in the integration of acrobatic tricking into taekwondo. There's also a lot of innovation in the realm of taekwondo instruction.

I think the question you really mean is: "Why doesn't taekwondo evolve to become more effective in a cage fight?" or something along those lines. If so, I think you have to stand back and ask yourself whether or not your question is demonstrating a bias. It's like asking why bakers don't spend more time developing soup recipes. Taekwondo is evolving. It's evolving in the directions that its practitioners find interesting. If you personally find fights interesting, then by all means: evolve your taekwondo in that direction.

 

[TrueJim]

I welcome people who have done hard sparring against other striking systems, like I have and continue to do. That way you really test yourself and your system, if you are evenly matched.

Do you follow this YouTube channel? I think you would like it: martialartstutor

 

[Axiom]

Do you follow this YouTube channel? I think you would like it: martialartstutor

No but I'm gonna check it out.

 

[Tez3]

They are having kids, buying SUV's, getting houses...

Here an awful lot aren't whereas they would have before. Without turning this into a political discussion things have never been worse for them. The economy is such that more than ever they can't afford to buy houses, have to pay off crippling university loans, pay caps in the professions and generally have to struggle far more than their age group has before. For many reason life isn't that good, not much better for the rest of us either who aren't rich.