15th Dan

[newtothe dark]

Very True I teach CMA on the weekends in a park for a few freinds, we get together and work on forms and even spar some. No one wears rank , no one bows, alot of the time we are in sweats. Not once in 10 years of doing it has anyone been confused as to who was who. The actions , movements, and character speaks all that needs to be spoken. None of those working with me have less than 10 years in the arts most have close to double that and I my self have over 30 so it has been fun and an eye opener. When training in my youth it was always what belt are you. I was one of only a few studying Kungfu in a town full of Karate so it blew their mind to hear me say "we dont have belts"
Just a thought.

 

[kwaichang]

I've trained and known at least two on this list and they were awesome decades ago. They certainly are among the best in the world.

If Hatsumi Sensei has changed designations (numbers over titles) that is his right.

 

[Obi Wan Shinobi]

Why do you worry about rank? Is it because maybe the rank is important to you and not everyone else? Jack Hoban said he asked Hatsumi-Sensei how did O'Sensei Takamatsu teach him 900 years worth of martial arts in 15 years and Hatsumi-Sensei answered him,"I can teach you in 10." So it doesn't matter what rank you are since your rank will not protect you in a life/death situation.

 

[kwaichang]

Why do you worry about rank? Is it because maybe the rank is important to you and not everyone else? Jack Hoban said he asked Hatsumi-Sensei how did O'Sensei Takamatsu teach him 900 years worth of martial arts in 15 years and Hatsumi-Sensei answered him,"I can teach you in 10." So it doesn't matter what rank you are since your rank will not protect you in a life/death situation.

Agreed. However, it isn't 900 yrs. of martial art, it IS 900 yrs old per the scrolls, etc.

 

[Shicomm]

Well , it's not about the numbers ; it's about the experience !

 

[Obi Wan Shinobi]

Exactly right its the experience....We all know that rank was created when Judo was made into an Olympic Sport and all other martial arts pretty much followed in suit. Or at least that was what was told to me when I first started martial arts back then.

 

[thetruth]

Exactly right its the experience....We all know that rank was created when Judo was made into an Olympic Sport and all other martial arts pretty much followed in suit. Or at least that was what was told to me when I first started martial arts back then.

Jigoro Kano did invent the idea of rank but it was well before it became an Olympic sport. It made it's debut in 1964 in Tokyo for men and ranking was done before then.

Cheers
Sam:asian:

 

[kwaichang]

Yes, but ranking was by title not colored belt. Old schools just let the obi get dirtier and eventually it turned black from years of use (never wash an obi).

 

[Kreth]

Old schools just let the obi get dirtier and eventually it turned black from years of use (never wash an obi).

You do realize this is an urban legend, right?

 

[kwaichang]

You do realize this is an urban legend, right?

Actually, in Japan, it was true when I trained there.:shrug:

 

[Kreth]

Actually, in Japan, it was true when I trained there.:shrug:

Strange, the last time I was in Japan, the shihan were wearing fairly new obi. Maybe someone forgot to tell them? :idunno:

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Strange, the last time I was in Japan, the shihan were wearing fairly new obi. Maybe someone forgot to tell them? :idunno:

When I have been there as well they all wore new belts.

 

[Flying Crane]

William Chow was a 15th Dan too...in Kenpo.

Keep posting, and I didn't know there is also a 15th Dan in Kenpo.

There isn't.

Mr. Chow proclaimed himself 15th Dan to place himself above the numerous people who were all claiming very high rank. I believe he did this out of a sense of sarcastic frustration as well as tongue-in-cheek.

I don't believe anyone, including himself, took it seriously.

 

[Mangudai]

Honestly, I think it is quite embarrassing to tell you the truth. My initial training started back in the mid-80's with Bud Malmstrom, but most of my training was with Charles Daniel. At that time there where only a hand-full of Go-Dans in the U.S. I remember when the ranks went up to 10th Dan and then there was Hatsumi-Sensei. It's interesting how most of these people who started training in the 90's and now have ranks higher than many traditional martial artist who have been training 30+ years (daily) and "are only" 8th dans in their respective organizations. Bottom-line, I believe it all comes down to two things. Money and Pride. Money in that Hatsumi is making a pile of it off the back of those ego's who like to be stroked. It's just sad! Enough for now.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Honestly, I think it is quite embarrassing to tell you the truth. My initial training started back in the mid-80's with Bud Malmstrom, but most of my training was with Charles Daniel. At that time there where only a hand-full of Go-Dans in the U.S. I remember when the ranks went up to 10th Dan and then there was Hatsumi-Sensei. It's interesting how most of these people who started training in the 90's and now have ranks higher than many traditional martial artist who have been training 30+ years (daily) and "are only" 8th dans in their respective organizations. Bottom-line, I believe it all comes down to two things. Money and Pride. Money in that Hatsumi is making a pile of it off the back of those ego's who like to be stroked. It's just sad! Enough for now.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but Hatsumi Sensei can do whatever he wants with his art. That is his right!

 

[orang_baik]

i've just do a stupid research in google

and look what I found :

Hatsumi vs BlackBelt Magazine
http://www.winjutsu.com/bbtaikaiarticle.htm
BB: Why did you decide to add the 11th degree black belt to 15th degree black belt ranks to your system?

MH: Its not something new. In the old days, it was like this. Its just that there weren't any 11th dan holders before.



another 15th degree member bujinkan :
http://bujinkanusa.com/teachers.htm


another 15th degree not a bujinkaners neither ninjutsuers
http://www.blackbeltmag.com/archives/380

 

[Obi Wan Shinobi]

Well this art is under Hatsumi Sensei's leadership. If he feels to have 15 dans then thats his business. Budo Taijutsu training and fighting methods to me are unique in the Marital World and therefore our ranks structure cannot be compared to any other martial art's rank structure since all martial arts have their own standards and requirements. In other words...each to their own.