10 Mistakes You Cannot Make When Confronted With A Violent Situation

[tellner]

I personally saw Mr. Pelligrini butt heads on that one with a lawyer and a long-time cop. It turned out that however considerable his skill at martial arts self defense law is not his specialty.

It's all in being well-prepared for dealing with the aftermath.

 

[Archangel M]

And while a lot of the aftermath is based on the "facts". A LOT of the aftermath is based on the articulation. Thats why the general advice "keep your mouth shut" is so common. Many people fail at articulating the event in the manner that best supports their actions.

 

[Cryozombie]

And while a lot of the aftermath is based on the "facts". A LOT of the aftermath is based on the articulation. Thats why the general advice "keep your mouth shut" is so common. Many people fail at articulating the event in the manner that best supports their actions.

So true. So true. I think its probably best to let a lawyer speak for you... they can say what needs to be said in the proper language: Courtesque.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Exactly. What matters in the courtroom isn't so much what you *did*. What matters is what you *say*, and what they can *prove*.

 

[MJS]

1. Don't hope it goes away. Take the necessary action to end the situation.

Agree. This goes hand in hand, IMO, with that other thread I started on why people are afraid to defend themselves.

2. Don't expect there to be even a glimmer of compassion in your attacker - there isn't.

Exactly. And that being said, I don't feel that we should always have compassion for them. We didn't ask to be attacked, so they get what they deserve.

3. Don't believe the playing field will be level when you are attacked.

Conditions will be most advantageous to your attacker and you will be most vulnerable.

True. And if there is something that we can do to even the field, it'd be a good idea to do it.

4. Don't apply your social restraint to their attack. The two are not compatible.

As tempting as it is, its probably not a good idea to continue once the fight has stopped. Assess each situation.

5. Don't believe you can compete normally with their level of violence. They are abnormal.

I'm not so sure I agree with this 100%, for the reasons a few others have already mentioned.

6. Don't be confrontational or challenging.

The situation is bad enough; letting your anger urge you headlong into a situation won't help.

A few ways this can be taken. If we act like a tough guy, this may fuel the other guys fire. If we act like a chicken ****, this still may fuel his fire, to continue on with his rant. I would say to act confident and sure of yourself. Not overly cocky and not overly whimpy. But make it known that you are standing up for yourself.

7. Don't give up, ever, if attacked.

True.

8. Don't promulgate a lie to yourself or your loved ones. The realities of today are what they are, and they need to know the hard-core facts about them.

Yup.

9. Don't forget, YOU didn't start anything or ask for any trouble.

True. Then again, I'm amazed at how many people I see, while out driving, that do the dumbest things, oh say, like pulling out from a side street, cutting you off. So you hit the horn, and suddenly, this seems to piss off the other guy, and he now acts as if you are the cause. Amazing how the real trouble makers try to turn the situation around to blame you, and justify their actions off of that.

10. Never forget #7.

True.

Source:

Jim Grover AKA Kelly McCann
Guns and Ammo
June 1997

I've read some great articles by the man. Great stuff!

 

[GBlues]

May I ask a question?

Seems that a lot of the posts on martialtalk.com deal with violence as it pertains to the social spectrum, as opposed the anti-social violence. Why is that?

 

[jks9199]

May I ask a question?

Seems that a lot of the posts on martialtalk.com deal with violence as it pertains to the social spectrum, as opposed the anti-social violence. Why is that?

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking.

Many of here are active martial artists (not surprisingly). Many of us also have a strong practical self defense approach to our training, rather than heavily competition or focused on the personal development aspects. Additionally, this particular sub forum with MT is about self defense. So it's not at all suprising that lots of posts here deal with violence.

If your talking about having more of an acceptance of some violence in life and training, then, again, I think it's a result of the community. Folks here practice various forms of violence, even though it may be stylized. They accept the existence of a level of violence in the world... and maybe even find it fun sometimes. In a relatively controlled situation.

 

[KenpoTex]

1. Don't hope it goes away. Take the necessary action to end the situation.

This first one reminds me of my favorite quote from McCann (well okay...second favorite): "waiting for final confirmation of an imminent attack usually results in injury to yourself." In other words..."get there firstest with the mostest."

I'd love to train with McCann someday...he's the real deal.

 

[GBlues]

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking.

Many of here are active martial artists (not surprisingly). Many of us also have a strong practical self defense approach to our training, rather than heavily competition or focused on the personal development aspects. Additionally, this particular sub forum with MT is about self defense. So it's not at all suprising that lots of posts here deal with violence.

If your talking about having more of an acceptance of some violence in life and training, then, again, I think it's a result of the community. Folks here practice various forms of violence, even though it may be stylized. They accept the existence of a level of violence in the world... and maybe even find it fun sometimes. In a relatively controlled situation.

I guess there seems to be this assumption that there will be words spoken or some action that will happen before the confrontation begins that will allow you time to prepare yourself for the confrontation. I here alot about taking it to the next level before the attacker does, or what do you do when the attacker takes it to the next level. These terms are all rooted in the social spectrum. It's gone from conversation, to agressive conversation, to pushing and shoving, to full blown fight. That is violence on the social spectrum. If I beat up tom my social standing goes up, and his goes down. I win in the pissing contest. You know what I mean?

Where as a-social violence is your talking to the guy like you would anybody else, just having a good time enjoying a pool game or a cup of coffee at work, and the next thing you know out of nowhere your fighting for your life. There is no, escalation, no steps to get to the violence it's just happening. I think it's important to make that distinction, because violence is a tool. Doesn't matter who is using that tool, it's still a tool. And when you jump from the social spectrum into the world of a-social behavior it's a whole nother ball game. A-social violence isn't about beating you up to look better or to prove who's tougher, or who's got the higher social standing. It's full on do as much damage as is humanly possible the easiest most effective way that a-social individual knows how. So in this situation it really is not in my mind a good idea to try and do submissions or other such non-devastating attacks unless you plan on breaking something. You just end it, i.e, tearing out eyes, destroying limbs, till the guy can't attack you anymore. See what I'm saying. I guess that is my question.

 

[morph4me]

I guess there seems to be this assumption that there will be words spoken or some action that will happen before the confrontation begins that will allow you time to prepare yourself for the confrontation. I here alot about taking it to the next level before the attacker does, or what do you do when the attacker takes it to the next level. These terms are all rooted in the social spectrum. It's gone from conversation, to agressive conversation, to pushing and shoving, to full blown fight. That is violence on the social spectrum. If I beat up tom my social standing goes up, and his goes down. I win in the pissing contest. You know what I mean?

Where as a-social violence is your talking to the guy like you would anybody else, just having a good time enjoying a pool game or a cup of coffee at work, and the next thing you know out of nowhere your fighting for your life. There is no, escalation, no steps to get to the violence it's just happening. I think it's important to make that distinction, because violence is a tool. Doesn't matter who is using that tool, it's still a tool. And when you jump from the social spectrum into the world of a-social behavior it's a whole nother ball game. A-social violence isn't about beating you up to look better or to prove who's tougher, or who's got the higher social standing. It's full on do as much damage as is humanly possible the easiest most effective way that a-social individual knows how. So in this situation it really is not in my mind a good idea to try and do submissions or other such non-devastating attacks unless you plan on breaking something. You just end it, i.e, tearing out eyes, destroying limbs, till the guy can't attack you anymore. See what I'm saying. I guess that is my question.

I don't believe that violence comes out of nowhere, it seems to because someone isn't paying attention or isn't aware of what's going on around them. You can tell when you're being targeted if you know what you're looking for, are aware of your surroundings, and trust your instincts. Take the appropriate measures to avoid it, or make it seem like a better idea to target someone else, and you significantly reduce the chances of being a target. The first step is understanding and believing that it can happen, and I think that many of us on MT understand that.

 

[jks9199]

I guess there seems to be this assumption that there will be words spoken or some action that will happen before the confrontation begins that will allow you time to prepare yourself for the confrontation. I here alot about taking it to the next level before the attacker does, or what do you do when the attacker takes it to the next level. These terms are all rooted in the social spectrum. It's gone from conversation, to agressive conversation, to pushing and shoving, to full blown fight. That is violence on the social spectrum. If I beat up tom my social standing goes up, and his goes down. I win in the pissing contest. You know what I mean?

Where as a-social violence is your talking to the guy like you would anybody else, just having a good time enjoying a pool game or a cup of coffee at work, and the next thing you know out of nowhere your fighting for your life. There is no, escalation, no steps to get to the violence it's just happening. I think it's important to make that distinction, because violence is a tool. Doesn't matter who is using that tool, it's still a tool. And when you jump from the social spectrum into the world of a-social behavior it's a whole nother ball game. A-social violence isn't about beating you up to look better or to prove who's tougher, or who's got the higher social standing. It's full on do as much damage as is humanly possible the easiest most effective way that a-social individual knows how. So in this situation it really is not in my mind a good idea to try and do submissions or other such non-devastating attacks unless you plan on breaking something. You just end it, i.e, tearing out eyes, destroying limbs, till the guy can't attack you anymore. See what I'm saying. I guess that is my question.

I think I see where your going, and I think it's worthy topic -- but it's going to derail this particular thread. Maybe we can get another thread going? Meanwhile, as a short answer -- there are two "types" of violence. One is ritualized combat; Rory Miller coined a great term for this, the Monkey Dance. It's not really about violence, it's about status. Note that doesn't mean you can't get hurt or killed in a Monkey Dance! The other is "real" violent attack, where the violence is a tool to obtain some other goal (even if that goal is simply the satisfaction of beating the hell out someone, or committing a rape, etc). This sort of violence is another beast entirely; it's going to be VERY sudden (often no posturing; the first news of the attack is the fist hitting you -- or knife going in), VERY fast, VERY brutal, and VERY close.

Like I said -- this is a very good topic, but I think it should be split off into a new thread.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Here is a mistake you can make...

It was sung by Roger Miller in "Water Hole Number 3".

"Don't draw against a man that's faster than you...."

"You've sang your last diddy"

"You've kissed your last filly"

"You've played your last hand if you do....."

And remembr the Code of The West (same show.)

"Do unto others before they do unto you"!

Deaf

 

[MJS]

I guess there seems to be this assumption that there will be words spoken or some action that will happen before the confrontation begins that will allow you time to prepare yourself for the confrontation. I here alot about taking it to the next level before the attacker does, or what do you do when the attacker takes it to the next level. These terms are all rooted in the social spectrum. It's gone from conversation, to agressive conversation, to pushing and shoving, to full blown fight. That is violence on the social spectrum. If I beat up tom my social standing goes up, and his goes down. I win in the pissing contest. You know what I mean?

Where as a-social violence is your talking to the guy like you would anybody else, just having a good time enjoying a pool game or a cup of coffee at work, and the next thing you know out of nowhere your fighting for your life. There is no, escalation, no steps to get to the violence it's just happening. I think it's important to make that distinction, because violence is a tool. Doesn't matter who is using that tool, it's still a tool. And when you jump from the social spectrum into the world of a-social behavior it's a whole nother ball game. A-social violence isn't about beating you up to look better or to prove who's tougher, or who's got the higher social standing. It's full on do as much damage as is humanly possible the easiest most effective way that a-social individual knows how. So in this situation it really is not in my mind a good idea to try and do submissions or other such non-devastating attacks unless you plan on breaking something. You just end it, i.e, tearing out eyes, destroying limbs, till the guy can't attack you anymore. See what I'm saying. I guess that is my question.

I think morph made some good points. To toss in my .02....IMO, it seems like you're describing 2 different things here. Example 1: You're at the ATM when suddenly from around the corner, a guy runs up to you holding a knife, yelling, telling you that he's going to cut you if you don't give him money. In that scenario, no, there is nothing that leads up to the violence. One moment you're minding your own business, next moment, you're faced with a deadly situation.

Example 2: You said that one moment you're talking to someone and then next, you're fighting with this person you were just talking to. This happened to me at a prior job. A co-worker and I were having a discussion, which was on a controversal topic. Things started to get a bit heated, and next thing I knew, as I was walking away, he started coming after me. Could we be in a bar, hanging with a few friends, when suddenly someone comes up and hits you? Sure. But I would say that its probably going to be split with half the time there will be a precursor to the violence, and the other half its a random attack. Of course, this is where being aware comes into play. Do you see a group of guys eyeing you from across the room? Perhaps while innocently looking around, one of those guys assumes you're looking at his girl?

I tend to avoid places where there is a high potential for problems. Doesn't mean someone couldn't get pissed at me while standing in line at the grocery store though.

This is something that can be trained, however, I'd be willing to bet the average martial arts school does not train it. This is why I'm a big fan of scenario drills. In addition to that, being aware of whats going on around you and reading body language is also important.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Great post Carol..




Well said...You must go to the next level..Most rookies cops are given the Use of Force Continumn aka if the attacker does this you do this..The biggest MISTAKE many make is to meet their attack at the same level..Go to the NEXT one...

Exactly! And just as importantly, stay ahead of your opponents reaction curve......meaning apply your force with speed, surprise and enough violence of action that you overcome his ability to react to it.

Dont run you mouth..It will only empower them...

Darn good advice......I learned on the playground that some men gather courage by 'running their mouth'......I always lost mine if I opened my mouth.