Wrist grabbing?

[donald1]

I like wrist grabs. You can break the wrist, hyperextend the arm or nonviolently restrain an attacker. (The list goes on...)
However your average high school bully probably doesn't think about those things.

 

[JR 137]

any chance of a few Youtube vids to demonstrate or explain. im really interested.

I haven’t seen much, nor have I really looked with a fine toothed comb. If I come across something I’ll post it.

In a nutshell, it’s kind of like the video Jow Ga Wolf posted. When they’re head to head, wrestlers like to grab wrists, especially if you have a less experienced opponent. A few of the schools we wrestled liked to use a wrist grab, and get a standing single leg while holding the wrist. Think of it as pulling downward fast and hard to the opponent’s knee to off-balance while grabbing the knee. Other schools would use wrist control to tie up both arms to initiate a throw. More like forearm control, but it started at the wrists.

Picture what they were doing in the video - the quick grabbing, circular movement, staying low, etc, and add keeping the wrist and doing what I mentioned. Someone who’s not used to keeping their wrists from being grabbed and breaking the grabs before they’re a threat will be in trouble before they realize what’s going on.

Again, video would make it very clear. I’ll try looking again

 

[drop bear]

A wrist grab is also a precursor to a back take.

If you take their back and you have half a clue. You have probably won that fight.

I do a lot of one hand on the back of their head one hand on the wrist.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

any chance of a few Youtube vids to demonstrate or explain. im really interested.

Here is a short clip to use wrist grab to achieve arm tucking.

 

[oftheherd1]

In addition to mostly what’s been said, my previous dojo did wrist grab defenses as a progression. We first learned the defenses and follow ups with someone grabbing your wrist. Then grabbing your sleeve at the wrist, sleeve at the elbow, elbow-ish area, lapels, etc. Pretty soon it got to two people grabbing and pushing each other around and a response from either. Similar to a judo match or even the start of a bar room brawl where guys are grabbing each other and trying to knock each other over. It’s all about very close distance “in-fighting.”

If all you do is simple wrist grabs and escapes with a compliant partner, they’re not worth much. If you have a progression of the grabbing and resistance, they’re quite valuable. You’ve got to start somewhere, and a simple wrist grab is the easiest and most logical place to start.

It’s no different than those stereotypical one-step defenses when someone steps in with a lunge punch and holds it out there waiting for the counter. They’re a great way to introduce the concept, but if it doesn’t progress sooner or not too much later, it’s little more than a waste of time.

Edit: When I was wrestling and coaching it, wrist control and wrist control escapes were very important during the neutral standing phase. I taught a couple ways to counter wrist control that I learned later on in karate to my wrestlers. The ones that actually used them did quite well with it.

Wrist grab defenses are useful for beginning to learn basics. In the Hapkido I studied, we pretty much went as above. And don't forget that in past times, if an opponent had a sword and you didn't, you might want to grab his wrist to prevent him from drawing his weapon, and giving you an opportunity to employ another technique against him.

But grappling imho, needs to have a progression from the simpler to the more complicated. Along the way you begin to develop muscle memory and tactile memory to aid in future techniques.

 

[drop bear]

I haven’t seen much, nor have I really looked with a fine toothed comb. If I come across something I’ll post it.

In a nutshell, it’s kind of like the video Jow Ga Wolf posted. When they’re head to head, wrestlers like to grab wrists, especially if you have a less experienced opponent. A few of the schools we wrestled liked to use a wrist grab, and get a standing single leg while holding the wrist. Think of it as pulling downward fast and hard to the opponent’s knee to off-balance while grabbing the knee. Other schools would use wrist control to tie up both arms to initiate a throw. More like forearm control, but it started at the wrists.

Picture what they were doing in the video - the quick grabbing, circular movement, staying low, etc, and add keeping the wrist and doing what I mentioned. Someone who’s not used to keeping their wrists from being grabbed and breaking the grabs before they’re a threat will be in trouble before they realize what’s going on.

Again, video would make it very clear. I’ll try looking again

 

[Mountie]

I've been wondering about this myself. Intellectually, I think of someone grabbing a woman's arm and hauling her away or trying to stop a smaller opponent from punching by grabbing their wrists, but in all my experience I've never seen it.

I wonder how much if it is related to aikido/ju jitsu being about weapon defense so they grabbed wrists. Unarmed practitioners got used to opponents grabbing their wrists so they started defending against that. But now we train primarily for unarmed opponents so the game changed. Blocks are tighter to defend against punches and kicks instead of knives and swords.

But that's just theory and guesswork. Anyone been grabbed by the wrist in an actual street fight or attack? Or even heard of it happening?

 

[JR 137]

That’s it right there. The first minute or so especially.

@hoshin1600 if you watch Drop Bear’s video, you’ll see him grabbing the wrist and pulling it down with him during the first minute or so. The wrist practically touches the opponent’s knee. We’d do a single leg grab at the point; either staying on our feet or going to our knees. Whichever one used would be a preference thing, but the wrist grab and pulling off-balance and/or set up the opponent nicely when done right. It’s got to be hard and fast.

Getting out of the grab easily negates a lot of that. And many people will get a solid grip on the wrist and hold it. Some people look for a two-on-one wrist grab. Some people like to get the wrist and keep it to either do an arm drag or tie up the arm for a throw. Whatever they’re looking to do with it, if you can’t get the wrist free quickly, you’re pretty much at their mercy if they know what they’re doing. A lot of stuff starts with a wrist grab in standing wrestling.

 

[Isaiah90]

I always wondered why people practice "grab my wrist" techniques? Are they of any use?. The times when I was a young lad on school the bullies never pulled such a move, and in street attacks I have seen, they didn't happen like that, also check some security camera stuff, most attacks don't happen like this. Thanks in advance for your insights.

They're pretty useless. In most cases, people strike. Grabbing or pushing is more of an aggressive display. People don't actually mean to hurt you when they grab you although it could be an indicator of an attack. That's why it's pretty useless to train with such methods.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

That's why it's pretty useless to train with such methods.

The reason that someone grabs your arm because he want to guide your arm away from his moving path. When he moves in, your arm won't be in the way.

If your opponent doesn't have similar plan like this, I then agree it's useless move.

 

[MI_martialist]

Wrist grabs are like the alphabet that lead to words, sentences, paragraphs, essays, books, novels, tomes, encyclopedias.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The issue is how will you grab on your opponent's wrist.

1. Right hand grab on your opponent's right arm? or
2. Right hand grab on your opponent's left arm?

When you grab, do you have your "tiger mouth" (space between thumb and index finger) facing to

- yourself? or
- your opponent?

 

[pdg]

They're pretty useless. In most cases, people strike. Grabbing or pushing is more of an aggressive display. People don't actually mean to hurt you when they grab you although it could be an indicator of an attack. That's why it's pretty useless to train with such methods.

Rubbish.

I've seen plenty of instances where a push/shove is a prelude to a strike.

I've also seen plenty where a grab (including but not exclusive to the wrist) is used to set up a strike, or to be the control technique in itself.

In fact, there was recently shown on the localish news CCTV footage of an assailant grabbing someone's wrist, manipulating their arm behind their back for control, reaching into their pocket and removing their wallet, then pushing them face first into a wall before walking away.


Yeah, pointless to train how to deal with a push or grab

 

[Gerry Seymour]

They're pretty useless. In most cases, people strike. Grabbing or pushing is more of an aggressive display. People don't actually mean to hurt you when they grab you although it could be an indicator of an attack. That's why it's pretty useless to train with such methods.

In a review of knife attacks, 71% of the attacks started with an off-side hand attack prior to the strong-side knife. Those included grips. Do you prefer to defend against a knife while he is controlling your other arm, or after you've freed it?

 

[frank raud]

They're pretty useless. In most cases, people strike. Grabbing or pushing is more of an aggressive display. People don't actually mean to hurt you when they grab you although it could be an indicator of an attack. That's why it's pretty useless to train with such methods.

Yes, the possibility of fouling someone's draw of a weapon is pretty useless. The possibility of someone grabbing you to hang on to either punch or stab you never happens. I mean look at hockey fights or prison stabbings. Where I live, hockey is the most common sport. Guess how most people(not trained in the martial arts) fight?

 

[pdg]

In most cases, people strike.

Hang on, I thought most people shot at you from a moving car while stabbing you with a knife attached to a baseball bat with a length of pipe in their other hand?

Edit: I forgot that everything should be dipped in acid or other chemical so they can throw that at you.

With a hammer.

 

[marques]

I always wondered why people practice "grab my wrist" techniques? Are they of any use?. The times when I was a young lad on school the bullies never pulled such a move, and in street attacks I have seen, they didn't happen like that, also check some security camera stuff, most attacks don't happen like this. Thanks in advance for your insights.

At first, I tend to agree. Then... it may happen in different contexts. Like between people that know each other, indoors, and one is trying to show his dominant power to the other.

Other scenario (or an exemple), ‘bullies’ have grabbed my stuff and closed the hand (and smiled a lot). Then I got my stuff back using about the same skill needed to manipulate grabs. At schools I couldn’t punch (without being suspended) and, as joints manipulation (and other tricks) were not making them angry, pain compliance worked all the time. With ‘peace’.

My main issue with “grab my wrist” techniques is that most of them will lead to an escalation of violence, independently if they could release themselves at or not. Or so badly trained that there is no release at all. At the end I agree with you again, too much effort (if you want to learn the smart techniques) for little advantage. Unless you enjoy it.

Training is very much for the ones that enjoy it, rather for the ones that really need it...

 

[marques]

And (some of) you say online learning doesn’t matter? I have found more knowledge in half these answers (next half later) than in many trial classes I have done or in some ‘instructors’ I have met. Sometimes reading and watching really helps.

 

[now disabled]

Yes, the possibility of fouling someone's draw of a weapon is pretty useless. The possibility of someone grabbing you to hang on to either punch or stab you never happens. I mean look at hockey fights or prison stabbings. Where I live, hockey is the most common sport. Guess how most people(not trained in the martial arts) fight?

Umm I have seen many fights in Hockey and they do grab.

Fouling someones weapon draw goes back to the days when swords were carried (I mean primarily Japan) so some arts still contain that. I am sure that some of the striking arts will have a sword block (I don't mean the sword lol I mean the hands or the hilt ) so is that useless too? can they not be adapted and thought of in a more modern way? I'd say yes but just my opinion.

And I have seen many instances where a person grabs another and then punches etc so saying that never happens I cannot agree with sorry

Hockey fights are a very specific type of fight imo and well looking at all the modern data the "minders" suffer and some have died through it but hey learn to fight hockey style just remember that the other dude might kick ya in the street where he will not on the ice

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Umm I have seen many fights in Hockey and they do grab.

Fouling someones weapon draw goes back to the days when swords were carried (I mean primarily Japan) so some arts still contain that. I am sure that some of the striking arts will have a sword block (I don't mean the sword lol I mean the hands or the hilt ) so is that useless too? can they not be adapted and thought of in a more modern way? I'd say yes but just my opinion.

And I have seen many instances where a person grabs another and then punches etc so saying that never happens I cannot agree with sorry

Hockey fights are a very specific type of fight imo and well looking at all the modern data the "minders" suffer and some have died through it but hey learn to fight hockey style just remember that the other dude might kick ya in the street where he will not on the ice

I think you missed the sarcasm in Frank's post, ND.