Lady faced 14 year jail sentence in Australia for having pepper spray.

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by iluvmycam, Feb 24, 2018.

  1. iluvmycam

    iluvmycam White Belt

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    Just like the title says...

    Lady went through metal detector, was searched and arrested for carrying pepper.

    I faced a 14-year jail sentence for carrying pepper spray

    I guess I would have got the death penalty, I don't carry around the little pink sprays...I carry 4 oz pepper.
     
  2. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Well if she's silly enough to carry a weapon without checking the laws then its her fault
     
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  3. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    The stupidity is strong in this one. she gets a strop on because a security guard dared to search, who did he think he was eh? She chooses to insult and belittle him in her mind and then is outraged when she's discovered with pepper spray and a penknife going into court. An arrogant drama queen making money writing articles to wind people up.
    And as for feeling invincible because she carried it, dream on sweetheart.
     
  4. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    wow. The weapon laws are strong there. What was the reason for Pepper Spray to be illegal? Was it often used in a crime? Or where these weapons just illegal because she was at judicial building. In the U.S. those items are illegal as well in judicial buildings, but not outside.

    I really don't like when people only feel safe with a weapon. Weapons should be used to help keep you safe, not make you feel safe. Having a weapon doesn't guarantee safety.
     
  5. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    It's illegal here too.

    In fact, if it can be shown that you're carrying anything (say a pen, or a credit card) with the intent to use it as a weapon, then it's classed as an illegal weapon.
     
  6. Anarax

    Anarax 2nd Black Belt

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    Was she ever arrested? I didn't see that in the article. If the judge dismissed her case what is she complaining about? What she did was against the law, but her horrible attitude didn't help the situation.
     
  7. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    I believe 14 years is probably to much in that situation but I do believe she should be punished for it. Laws are there for a reason you follow them or you get punished its as simple as that in my eyes. No matter how stupid the law or whatever it is. It's the law you follow it or face the consequences it's your choice
     
  8. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    In my opinion carrying a weapon is even more dangerous for yourself. You pull out a weapon to deal with an attacker the attacker ups his attack because there's even more of a threat now they see a weapon and weapons can fail, they can break and they can be taken from you. Not worth the risk in my opinion.
     
  9. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    A reporter with an attitude, a scoff law in general, and how the hell is she supposed to know what she's carrying....into a courtroom of all places.

    Reading her article, that is one unlikeable person.

    God, I so hate members of the press.
     
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  10. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    It is used in crime. I had a guy come in to where I work who was mugged by a group who just snuck up and pepper sprayed him.

    The 14 years is a bit hyperbolic. We have illegal weapons which pepper spray is. But a bazooka is also illegal. But you don't get the same sentence.
     
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  11. Anarax

    Anarax 2nd Black Belt

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    It depends on the weapon carrier. I agree some people don't have a great temperament for carrying weapons. There are those that overact and haven't been trained in situational awareness and de-escalation. However; there are those that have.
    Well the lethality of the weapon should always be appropriate for the situation. Meaning if someone draws a less than lethal weapon I draw a less than lethal weapon, they draw a lethal weapon, I draw a lethal weapon. Your scenario only applies if the weapon's lethality I draw isn't justified for the current situational parameters.
    Most of this has to do with weapon training. Weapon retention and weapon failures are something than any weapon carrier should be well versed in.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  12. Anarax

    Anarax 2nd Black Belt

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    Wow, I was going to reply "they're not all like that". However; when I said it I realized in my heart I knew I was lying to myself.

    LOL
     
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  13. skribs

    skribs Master of Arts

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    Athletic college guy tries to abduct petite college girl. If the girl has a gun, she's much more likely to scare the guy off or shoot him in self defense than he is to escalate the attack and make it worse.

    If she doesn't have a gun she's completely at his mercy.
     
  14. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Well, only if she's confident with producing it and being prepared (technically and emotionally) to use it.

    And what's the chances she'd actually get to it in an abduction scenario anyway?

    More likely the attacker would have a victim and a bonus free gun.
     
  15. Anarax

    Anarax 2nd Black Belt

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    The only way your scenario plays out that way is if she lacks proficiency with the weapon she's carrying. I could use the same argument if she was poorly trained in martial arts thus her skills/training were insufficient. The martial arts style itself didn't fail her, her training did. Rape and assault/battery are other scenarios she could find herself in.
     
  16. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    To make the gun effective is more than proficiency in it's use.

    There's being able to make use of said proficiency under extreme stress for a start.

    Then there's being able to identify a threat of sufficient magnitude in time to find the gun in her bag, try to remember where the safety is while she's panicked, then being able to actually retain her weapon.

    Enough police officers are shot with their own gun for me to surmise that a teenager (male or female) is unlikely to have the wherewithal to be effective.

    Here's a scenario, petite girl is grabbed from behind, both arms pinned to her side and carried away - how does having a gun help her?

    Another scenario - the athletic college guy is walking quickly directly toward the petite college girl, there's a look of anger and intent on his face and he's clenching fists, so she shoots him. Later it emerges he'd just found out his girlfriend was cheating on him and he was stress walking it off...
     
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  17. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I feel the same way too. Sometimes having a weapon makes people stand their ground when they should be leaving to avoid the conflict. Weapons don't stop violent attackers from attacking. It just makes them up their aggression and the tools they use to deliver it. In the U.S. police complained about being "out gunned." Policemen with guns didn't make criminals less likely to attack. It just made the criminals more likely to attack with bigger guns and ambushes. When I see people walk with guns and I'm standing behind them. I always think "How would I attack this guy so that he wouldn't be able to use his gun to protect himself." My answer is always a brutal one, because as an attacker I can't afford for my victim to use their gun on me. My attack must be brutal and fast enough so that he doesn't have a chance.

    All of my scenario attacks also involved me blindsiding the person with the gun which would give me the advantage. I'm not saying that I would ever commit a criminal action like that, but it helps me to put things into perspective of how a victim may be seen. Criminals don't always pick the easiest target.
     
  18. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    This only happens when the criminal doesn't know that she has a gun. Go through the scenario of being an attacker. How would you attack a woman if you thought she had a gun? Police Officer's weapon stolen after assault. here's another case same thing. It also happens to males. Man steals gun from man.

    People do not have the fear of guns that many assume. For me myself. I'm not afraid of guns. If I was going to attack someone who I thought had a weapon. I would be sure to get the jump on you. A gun will only save you, if you can reach it and use it. If I can stop that from happening then there's little risk that my victim will shoot me.
     
  19. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Both are valid scenarios. People will often depend so much on a gun to protect them, that they will neglect other important factors related to self-defense.
     
  20. Anarax

    Anarax 2nd Black Belt

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    Proficiency includes the facets of using guns in a self defense scenario, it's much more than being a good shot
    There are firearms training courses that cover that
    You're creating a scenario so there are more steps involved so she has the worst odds, but that doesn't mean she won't be able to get to her firearm. Again it comes down to training. I can just as easily have a scenario that she has a quick access concealed holster and has taken sufficient training(drawing, retention, situational awareness, etc). FYI, many concealed carry firearms don't have external safeties. One major concept of concealed carry weapons is decreasing the steps involved in getting to your weapons(firearms, knives, etc)
    What about all the police officers that were able to get to their firearms? Or those that used their firearms successfully in self-defense scenarios? Don't only focus on the fallen officers who were shot with their own firearms. May they rest in peace
    Many self-defense firearm courses incorporate anti-grappling techniques and escapes to both access and retain your firearm. There's another thread that covers it
    Situational awareness is a part of firearms training. You can just as easily make her a black belt in your scenario and she has the same poor judgement and she kicks the guy in the head and knocks him out. It's not a failing of the tools(firearms, martial arts, knives, etc), it was a failure of training.

    Note: I'm not saying firearms give you 100% percent immunity from harm, nothing does. But there is much more to firearms training than shooting at a paper target.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
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