Of course WC wasn't designed for grappling, but shouldn't it be basic common sense that, regardless of which style you're studying, you should get a sense for what your opponent is actually trying to do before making a move? This is something I learned from day one.
Wing Chun grappling
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Of course WC wasn't designed for grappling, but shouldn't it be basic common sense that, regardless of which style you're studying, you should get a sense for what your opponent is actually trying to do before making a move? This is something I learned from day one.
drop bear
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It is not something I would do. But people have had success with things like flying knees off the touch glove. So mabye he had some plan there that just didn't work out.
TSDTexan
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Sifu Robert Chu says there is a Kuen Kuit that says "don't let their system or style show". Wing chun is about interrupting the actions of an opponent before they get their stuff working. So no wc doesn't really try to understand, it tries to swarm and smother the opponent's hands and deliver enough fast and powerful attacks to end the fight.
Chu is one of my favorite sifus and I agree with him, but I didn't see the guy trying to interrupt anything. He seemed to have the novice "chase him around with chainpunches and everything will be okay" mentality, when there is really much more to it than that.
TSDTexan
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Something hawkins chueng said:
These students wanted wing chun techniques and feeling. To me, the wing chun techniques are of secondary importance. Techniques can be learned from any wing chun teacher. However, without body connection and physical development, the techniques become useless.
Trained to fight
Back in the 195Os, Yip Man trained us to fight, not be technicians. Because we were so young, we didn’t understand the concepts or theories. As he taught us, Yip Man said, “Don’t believe me, as I may be tricking you. Go out and have a fight. Test it out.” In other words, Yip Man taught us the distance applications of wing chun. First he told us to go out and find practitioners of other styles and test our wing chun on them. If we lost, we knew on what we should work. We would go out and test our techniques again. We thought to ourselves, “Got to make that technique work! No excuses!” We learned by getting hit. When you are in a real fight, you find out what techniques are good for you. Just because your technique may work for one person doesn’t guarantee it will work for you. When you test your techniques on someone you don’t know, you experience a different feeling than when training with your friends. If you discover through your own experience, it’s much better than relying on another’s experience. In this way, you won’t be in his trap.
For this reason, physical and strong tool development are more important than the techniques.
To this. . Not enough fighting is a problem for many wc players
wckf92
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Nice post dude.
It resembles a little how I was trained at first. Long bridge, entry strategies, crash-in-the-door WC, physical training, and strong tool development, conditioning etc. Not much on theory or concepts...just learn the basics and drill them until you are blue in the face then drill them even more until they are "subconsciously competent"...
The problem is there were not that many wrestlers in Hong Kong back then for those WC guys to test their skill on. MA training is to solve problems. Today we are facing different kind of problems. Our training should be modified.
Ditto
Jake104
Black Belt
There's no such thing as anti-grappling. You're either grappling or striking. That's it. So is rolling teaching striking or grappling or both? I have no frickin clue . It just looks cool. JK I know what it teaches. But do you???
Jake104
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By the way, I haven't read this whole thread. I just clicked on video and the words anti-grappling appeared. So since nature was calling, I thought I'd check into this forum. It's been awhile. Hopefully I have been missed? I didn't think so!
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Sometimes people make the mistake of playing a fight out in their mind about what their first move is going to be and how the fight is going to be. Some times it works and sometimes it doesn't. He probably thought he was going to overwhelm his opponent with WC punches and was so focused on making it happen that he failed to identify his opponents game plan. The low crouching should have been a warning.
Simple check on "whether your system truly train anti-grappling."
- How do you prevent your opponent from getting an "under hook" on you?
- After your opponent has "under hook" on you, how will you handle it?
- How do you prevent your opponent from getting an "under hook" on you?
- After your opponent has "under hook" on you, how will you handle it?
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There are some grappling escapes that don't require for me to punch or grab my opponent in order to break his hold.
Eric_H
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If the bridge you form with the opponent can't survive even the first challenge - be it grab, punch, kick, headbutt, whatever... how good of a bridge is that really?
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I don't think it's so much a different kind of problem as it is that many schools have become too specialized in certain techniques which causes other techniques to fade or be totally removed. Olympic style TKD is a perfect example of the specialization of techniques. Grappling is the most basic kind of fighting and I can't see anyone developing a fighting system that didn't address someone wanting to take me to the ground. It's most likely that certain techniques were forgotten or removed from the forms as a result of customization on what Sifus thought were more important or were really good at. For example, I'm awesome with sweeps and fighting in a low stance so if I become a Sifu then those are 2 aspects that will be heavy in any forms customization.
If you look up Jow Ga Sei Ping then you'll see that the form it's not uniform across different schools each Sifu adds and removes certain parts as they see fit. I often look at Sei Ping forms from other Jow Ga schools to be aware of other techniques that are part of the system but may not be taught in my school or taught at the current level I'm at. This customization means that some things will be lost and some things will be retained.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Whats demonstrated in that video isn't a defense against a wrestling takedown. It's defense against a wing chun guy trying to mimic a wrestling takedown.
It's a perfectly cromulent defense against an untrained football tackle. As long as they don't claim it's effective against a trained wrestler, I have no problem with it.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I would have no problem with it either, but the video isn't purporting to teach a defense against a untrained football tackle.
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In fairness, he doesn't specify that it's a counter for a wrestler. He just says "takedown" and an untrained football tackle is a common takedown attempt, although not a skilled one.
It's quite possible that he meant it as a counter for a wrestler's double leg, but the video doesn't explicitly say that.
