Why some people still don't want to wear mask?

[Steve]

In a different area, we have something relatively new being floated in the USA: herd immunity. Now, there is nothing new about the concept of herd immunity. It manifests in different ways. But what is new is this idea that we should attempt to eradicate a virus that is known to be very dangerous by simply allowing everyone to get it. This is what the kooks are suggesting, and we know that in Sweden, where they tried it, it didn't go so well. A lot of folks died who probably didn't need to die.

So, to be clear, herd immunity isn't the issue. The issue is how we work toward achieving it. And the answer is, through a vaccine. How did we achieve herd immunity from the small pox? Polio? The mumps? Various strains of measles? Deadly viruses like the small pox, or pernicious ones like Polio, are not the kinds of diseases where you just allow everyone to become infected. Instead, you develop a vaccine and you vaccinate everyone. We have herd immunity from the mumps because enough people vaccinate their kids to achieve it. And we know that when dumb anti-vaxxers don't vaccinate enough of their kids, mumps makes a resurgence.

Just for consideration, if everyone in the country gets Covid19, and the death rate is 1%, we're talking over 2 million lives lost.

So, if a vaccine is the means for achieving herd immunity, and trust in the agency responsible for approving the vaccine has been compromised because the people in charge have politicized their processes, where does that leave us? We've had folks in this thread already say that they won't be taking the first round of vaccines. That's really sad.

 

[jobo]

Not surprising that the cumulative deaths per million in the UK is among the highest in the world, and even higher than the USA. Almost 5k cases per million, and over 600 deaths per million. Looks like the number of cases is starting to go back up, too. Things seemed to have calmed down for a while, few deaths each day and cases being reported was flattening out. Hope we don't see any future spikes resulting from the apathy you mention above.

https://covid19.who.int/table

For anyone who wants to look at the information, you can find it at the link above. It hasn't been converted into hyper-partisan political talking points yet, so I expect @dvcochran has little reason to go there. Though, that said, there have been efforts to politicize the WHO in order to undermine their credibility with people like @dvcochran to groom them so that they can be more easily manipulated.

i was reading an artcle, that the death toll, from the shut down exceeds the virus deaths, now of course the finacial reality is coming home, our govenment kindly payed 80% of the population to sit in the garden all summer, then they said back to work, but there was no work to go to, and companies are making milkions of peopke redundant,

the spike in the uk, is largly in area with a very high asian musl8m population, its not polically correct to even mention this, we have to pretend that covid is an equal opertunities virus, im not sure why this is so, it may be genitic or perhaps its because they have large families and are far more socially actiive than the rest of the uk l population, ??? either way, its not equally spread

 

[Steve]

i was reading an artcoal, that the death toll, from the shut down exceeds the virus deaths, now of course the finacial teality is comeing hom, our govenment kindly payed 80% of the population to sit in the gard3n all summer, then they daid back to work, but there was no work to go to, and companies are making milkions of peopke redundant,

the spike in the uk, is largly in area with a very hogh asian musl8m population, its not polically correct to even mention this, we have to pretend that covid is an equal opertunities virus, im not sure why this is so, it may be genitic or perhaps its because they have large fanilies and are far more socially actiive than the test of the uk l population

There's a lot of room for discussion here, and I think the fallout from this is going to be significant. There were a lot of things that were done well, and we should look at those countries that have been able to reopen safely and quickly for best practices. There were also unintended consequences to shutting down that can and should be addressed.

If you could find that article, I'd be interested in reading it.

 

[Bruce7]

This is such obvious bologna. You don't research anything, man. Come on. Who are you trying to kid? At the very most, you read or heard the talking point, then went to the CDC website looking for the very specific thing that you wanted to see, and called it a day. No one is fooled here. Just stop.

IMO your post are pushing the limits of being rude.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Nail on the head. This is exactly what I have been saying. I hope your way of saying it is more digestible for folks. There comes a point in data mining where the source alone is not good enough for proof. You have to research the background information.
I understood from jump that my comments of "go find it for yourself" would get blowback. And for clarification I did not make the first 'spoon fed' comment which you disliked. I reacted to it in an effort to get people to look for and understand information from different sources. Simple as that. But there is a hole in that tact. There is still a reality where a person could spend days searching and still assimilate the information to confirm an opinion they had already made up in their mind.
I feel there is a Lot of that going on with some folks.

I disliked it because I asked for help finding what you're referring to, and you either ignored it or refused.

 

[Steve]

IMO your post are pushing the limits of being rude.

That one is pretty direct, but sometimes, some people only understand very direct language. Nothing I said is untrue.

"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools." Can't remember who said that, but it certainly fits the bill.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Wear a mask during sex and avoid kissing new people, Canada's top doctor advises - CNN

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In a different area, we have something relatively new being floated in the USA: herd immunity. Now, there is nothing new about the concept of herd immunity. It manifests in different ways. But what is new is this idea that we should attempt to eradicate a virus that is known to be very dangerous by simply allowing everyone to get it. This is what the kooks are suggesting, and we know that in Sweden, where they tried it, it didn't go so well. A lot of folks died who probably didn't need to die.

So, to be clear, herd immunity isn't the issue. The issue is how we work toward achieving it. And the answer is, through a vaccine. How did we achieve herd immunity from the small pox? Polio? The mumps? Various strains of measles? Deadly viruses like the small pox, or pernicious ones like Polio, are not the kinds of diseases where you just allow everyone to become infected. Instead, you develop a vaccine and you vaccinate everyone. We have herd immunity from the mumps because enough people vaccinate their kids to achieve it. And we know that when dumb anti-vaxxers don't vaccinate enough of their kids, mumps makes a resurgence.

Just for consideration, if everyone in the country gets Covid19, and the death rate is 1%, we're talking over 2 million lives lost.

So, if a vaccine is the means for achieving herd immunity, and trust in the agency responsible for approving the vaccine has been compromised because the people in charge have politicized their processes, where does that leave us? We've had folks in this thread already say that they won't be taking the first round of vaccines. That's really sad.

The idea had some early traction with a minority in the scientific community - Sweden being a case in point. And they didn't save their economy much pain - they are going through a deep recession, as well. As someone said on the BBC last week, "Death is bad for the economy."

 

[Steve]

Wear a mask during sex and avoid kissing new people, Canada's top doctor advises - CNN

When I read this yesterday, my immediate thought is that the Furries are like, "WOOHOO! We've hit the mainstream!"

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

people wandering round in masks is very very rare, possibly one in a 1000, may be much less than that.

My simple question is "Why take the risk?"

In MA, if one can do something to reduce his chance to get hit, he will do it. If to have mask on can help one to reduce the risk to get COVID-19. why doesn't he want to do it?

When I run, I have a mask under my chin. When I see someone, I'll move up my mask. After I have passed that person, I then move my mask below my chin again. Since I only run around my neighborhood, I usually only have to put on my mask 3-4 times during my 3 miles running.

We only live once. Don't play with our life. Hope everybody can live to 100.

 

[Steve]

The idea had some early traction with a minority in the scientific community - Sweden being a case in point. And they didn't save their economy much pain - they are going through a deep recession, as well. As someone said on the BBC last week, "Death is bad for the economy."

Totally. Again, the point is that the best way to go about creating herd immunity is through a safe and effective vaccine... and that takes time. And also, it's not always possible (or necessary) for many reasons to vaccinate everyone. Look at Ebola.

 

[JowGaWolf]

When I look at that spike in cases and deaths over the last 7 days, that concerns me, along with the fact that we're still losing about 1,000 people per day and will soon go over 200k deaths. That's not a milestone we want.

I feel the same way. Mainly because I don't expect the fall and winter months to be better. In terms of illness, the fall and winter months are the worst. We are entering those months on an increase and not a decrease. That's bad enough but in the U.S.we also have this idea of "Herd Immunity," + a rush to get back to normal + the idea of "Do what Sweden is doing" + a mentality that only old people get it bad.

I'm not feeling optimistic about the whole of things to many states trying to go with their own plan instead of a unified approach. If the USA is a team and each state are like the players on the team. None of them are following the same game plan. Teams have to work together and be on the same page. We definitely don't have that in the USA at the moment. Sounds depressing, but I rather have the realistic view of things so I can make decision that are appropriate for that reality. Once I have a plan to fit then things don't feel so bad even though things this fall and winter can be really bad. The brighter side of things is that most people stay indoors during the fall and winter months depending on where you live.

I'll see how this weekend turns out. Maybe that will give me a different view of what I think of the team.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I feel the same way. Mainly because I don't expect the fall and winter months to be better. In terms of illness, the fall and winter months are the worst. We are entering those months on an increase and not a decrease. That's bad enough but in the U.S.we also have this idea of "Herd Immunity," + a rush to get back to normal + the idea of "Do what Sweden is doing" + a mentality that only old people get it bad.

I'm not feeling optimistic about the whole of things to many states trying to go with their own plan instead of a unified approach. If the USA is a team and each state are like the players on the team. None of them are following the same game plan. Teams have to work together and be on the same page. We definitely don't have that in the USA at the moment. Sounds depressing, but I rather have the realistic view of things so I can make decision that are appropriate for that reality. Once I have a plan to fit then things don't feel so bad even though things this fall and winter can be really bad. The brighter side of things is that most people stay indoors during the fall and winter months depending on where you live.

I'll see how this weekend turns out. Maybe that will give me a different view of what I think of the team.

Based on how the virus spreads (droplets), the winter should be worse, as the lower humidity will allow the droplets to stay airborn longer. Since a vaccine by then is unlikely, our best hope for mitigation (other than distancing and masks) is some level of herd immunity among those who've already been exposed. If we're lucky, the immune response will be durable enough to help out.

 

[Steve]

I actually get weekly CDC news (i.e. from the CDC) in my email, and go to the CDC website a couple times each week. I think most people go to the site regularly. I think the idea you have that anyone HASN'T gone to the CDC website is illustrative of the point.

Edit: Just adding a screen shot of what the weekly email looks like. Anyone can subscribe on their site. Just a way to, you know, stay informed.

View attachment 23104

It occurred to me that someone might question the above, so I thought I'd dig the first weekly briefing I got from the CDC back in early march. How does someone stay up to date? Well, there are a lot of ways, but this is a pretty good one for keeping up with the CDC.

I signed up for the news feed in late February, when things started to get really bad. Below are screen shots of the entire email from the week of 3/2/20:



If anyone's interested, I could post screen shots of all of them between 3/2/20 and week of 8/24/20 (the most recent). I think I can pull them all out of the deleted folder.

 

[jobo]

My simple question is "Why take the risk?"

In MA, if one can do something to reduce his chance to get hit, he will do it. If to have mask on can help one to reduce the risk to get COVID-19. why doesn't he want to do it?

When I run, I have a mask under my chin. When I see someone, I'll move up my mask. After I have passed that person, I then move my mask below my chin again. Since I only run around my neighborhood, I usually only have to put on my mask 3-4 times during my 3 miles running.

We only live once. Don't play with our life. Hope everybody can live to 100.

but what level of risk is it? its a genuine question,

ive ignored the whole thing as much as possible, im not at all sure if ive had it or not, i felt a bit rough for a few days , but then sugestuon and paronia does that,

if pwople are being tokd masks reduce the risk, that meanibgless unless you kbow what the risk is to start off with, and how much they reduce it.

as ive said the uk advice/ law is a complete mess, no need for masks in crowded pubs, vut strictly nessercery in nearly empty super markets, it a joke

personally id sooner risk death than live in fear, of some remote possibility,

and masks allegedly, there to protect others and i really dont care if other gets it or not, they can stop in if they dont want to run the risk

 

[JowGaWolf]

Wear a mask during sex and avoid kissing new people, Canada's top doctor advises - CNN

I heard Dr. Atlas make fun of that. I was wondering what he was talking about.
I understand what the article was getting at, not sure if the delivery was a clean one lol. Simply ask yourself. How would you date in a pandemic environment? Depending on your position about the benefits of wearing a mask, you'll probably run into a few scenario's about wearing a mask. I would hope that a high level of trust and that both are on the same game plan for protecting themselves against Covid, would be establish before thinking about sex. But then again. people lie. That's why STD's don't die out.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Totally. Again, the point is that the best way to go about creating herd immunity is through a safe and effective vaccine... and that takes time. And also, it's not always possible (or necessary) for many reasons to vaccinate everyone. Look at Ebola.

That's how I feel too. When they said Herd immunity, I was like.. So we'll have herd immunity like we do against colds and other viruses that don't work that way lol.

 

[jobo]

I heard Dr. Atlas make fun of that. I was wondering what he was talking about.
I understand what the article was getting at, not sure if the delivery was a clean one lol. Simply ask yourself. How would you date in a pandemic environment? Depending on your position about the benefits of wearing a mask, you'll probably run into a few scenario's about wearing a mask. I would hope that a high level of trust and that both are on the same game plan for protecting themselves against Covid, would be establish before thinking about sex. But then again. people lie. That's why STD's don't die out.

sex generally doesnt work that way , thats why stds dont die out

 

[JowGaWolf]

but what level of risk is it? its a genuine question,

ive ignored the whole thing as much as possible, im not at all sure if ive had it or not, i felt a bit rough for a few days , but then sugestuon and paronia does that,

if pwople are being tokd masks reduce the risk, that meanibgless unless you kbow what the risk is to start off with, and how much they reduce it.

as ive said the uk advice/ law is a complete mess, no need for masks in crowded pubs, vut strictly nessercery in nearly empty super markets, it a joke

personally id sooner risk death than live in fear, of some remote possibility,

and masks allegedly, there to protect others and i really dont care if other gets it or not, they can stop in if they dont want to run the risk

Reduce the risk in this case. Just simply means do things that make it difficult to be infected. When you do things that make it difficult to be infected then it doesn't matter what environment you are in or how many people are in the that environment. Unless you are a person that works in an environment dealing with Covid patients, then it switches from Risk Reduction to Infection Prevention.

 

[Buka]

Wear a mask during sex and avoid kissing new people, Canada's top doctor advises - CNN

Yeah, but not while she's holding weights.