Why some people still don't want to wear mask?

Discussion in 'The Locker Room Bar & Grill' started by Kung Fu Wang, Aug 29, 2020.

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  1. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Well, we know what it has done, and we know that it is very contagious. We know it can be a lot more dangerous to people than the cold or the flu. We know that masks help prevent the spread, along with simple things like washing one's hands. We know that countries that were cautious are doing a lot better than countries that are not. Look at Sweden, which tried the herd immunity route, or the USA, which we can see in this thread is no surprise when propaganda so easily makes its way into the discussion.

    What hasn't been determined yet, as far as I've seen, is how quickly this virus mutates, which will determine how effective a vaccine might be. It looks like some promising progress has been made in this area, but I think it's a little too early to tell. We haven't determined the long term effects on folks who survive the virus yet, though there is some indication that permanent lung damage and other things like that could result.
     
  2. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    While the picture says 99% of it, I'll just point out that you shared absolutely no actual information in your post above. You talk a lot ABOUT data. You talk a lot ABOUT statistics. But you share none. Hmmm...
    [​IMG]
     
  3. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    We know what it can do.
    We don't know why, or to whom.
    We think we have an idea, then something else pops up.
    And naturally, there is the overlooked fact that the damage the virus does might very well be permanent.

    There are estimates on the rate of mutation. Not very fast, but that was also assuming people would do their utmost to limit the spread. Not throw parties and defy distancing orders and in essence accelerate the rate of infection.
    there were numbers floating around between 2 and 8 a few months ago.

    And since the numbers aren't correct in any case, due to various reasons (almost all political) we are fighting an uphill battle
     
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  4. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    Of course. That is your job, and anyone else seeking truth instead of wanting to be spoon fed possible misinformation.
     
  5. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Folks are trying to educate you, but you refuse to learn. Not just me, though you can't seem to see that. Several folks are asking you questions you won't answer, and sharing information with you that you won't, or perhaps, can't acknowledge.

    quotes-To-save-man-from-the-640x537.jpg

    And I'm still waiting for those links to the articles or videos on CNN and CNBC that you said you saw, when you were trying to normalize the propaganda that you shared without any critical thought or judgement.

    Heck, at this point, I'd settle for a credible, external source for any of your assertions. As I said before, this is about more than just simple disagreement at this point. You're assurances that you are "deeply moral and ethical" ring false, given that you cannot seem to tell the truth, and you won't support any of your hairbrained assertions with independently verifiable evidence. Literally every insult you sling at me is reflected in your own behavior. You are not credible at this point and, in fact, appear to be entirely unreasonable.

    Edit: Except for the "insult" you posted above. That one, I'll gladly accept. While not my job, I am very glad we agree that I share actual information and actual statistics to support my posts. That's a good thing. That you think otherwise is alarming.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
  6. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    Um yeah, meme's are such credible information. But I do love many of MLK's quotes.
    Like I said again and again, why can't you go to the sites you reference yourself and find the information? It is not at all difficult. I am not going to do your work for you. That is simply part of the problem.

    Go ahead with your attempts to discredit me. I have attacked you personally so it is justified. It does not change my opinion of you however.
     
  7. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    If I'm looking for information that disagrees with what I think I know, why wouldn't I seek it from someone who says they have exactly that? Why refuse to help someone gather data? I'm truly confused.
     
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  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    If he goes there and can't find it, do you prefer he assume it doesn't exist, or do you want to point him to it, so he can include that information in his opinion?
     
  9. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    I'm presenting information. Other folks are, too. You're not. No one's doing anything "to" you.

    No one is making you lie about your sources. No one is making you take increasingly severe positions that are clearly in conflict with the scientific community. No one is forcing you to do that. You're choosing to do that to yourself. Look, man. I get it. Your self image is pretty obvious, but you're acting like a victim here. You clearly consider yourself to be a man of integrity, but you're not acting with integrity now. You consider yourself to be a rational person who considers information, but you are clearly getting your information in some kind of a direct line from known propaganda outlets and fringe conspiracy theorists. When asked for sources, you get defensive and lash out.

    I said once before that I think you could benefit from talking to a pro about some stuff. I still think that's true. You've got some huge blind spots, and a trained therapist can help you identify those and be a better person. There is no stigma (or should be no stigma) to this.
     
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  10. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Case in point. You "watched a local news feed this morning". Which one? Can you share a link to this story you saw? I found a link to my local news channel without any problem at all.

    And for what it's worth, when I searched for anything about stockpiling vaccines, I got some results from unknown websites that I didn't bother to check, and Fox Business (aka, Fox News). US stockpiling 3 different types of coronavirus vaccines through 'Operation Warp Speed'

    Interestingly, the Fox News link included strikingly similar language you use above: "The U.S. has already manufactured and stockpiled "hundreds of thousands of doses" of coronavirus vaccines in the hopes that one will be effective in combating the virus, a senior administration official said Tuesday." (the embedded quotation marks were in the article, indicating that they are a quote, and so are not necessarily verified independently.)
     
  11. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    I have such wonderful memories of Pismo Beach. Always loved that place. Even the name.
     
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  12. Bruce7

    Bruce7 Black Belt

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    I am old and my neighbors are old.
    The guy that lives in front of me is a very nice man in his 80's with a wife thats not able to get out of the house, he told me covid is a HOAX.
    Then he told me the death numbers was fake news.
    I didn't know what to do. I didn't want to argue with him. It would not do any good , Fox news is on every time I have been at his house.
    I am afraid for him and his wife.
     
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  13. Bruce7

    Bruce7 Black Belt

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  14. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Good news is that you know the Solo form. Now we know what forms are good for lol
     
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  15. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I don't even understand this Fauci is not a political advisor. Fauci has never made statements about what is the best political approach. This is Fauci's career "Dr. Fauci was appointed director of NIAID in 1984. He oversees an extensive portfolio of basic and applied research to prevent, diagnose, and treat established infectious diseases such as HIV/AIDS, respiratory infections, diarrheal diseases, tuberculosis and malaria as well as emerging diseases such as Ebola and Zika. NIAID also supports research on transplantation and immune-related illnesses, including autoimmune disorders, asthma and allergies." The only reason we see him in white house press conferences is because as go good leader and basically a good manager of things. You bring experts in to give their knowledge on things you don't know about.

    There were only 2 things I needed to know. 1 it kills people, and 2 they don't know anything about it. So for me that just screams.. Do my best not to get it.

    Sort of like how Timex (the watch company) used to use radioactive material in their watches. The knew what it does, but didn't know much about until after people started dying.
    Mae Keane, One Of The Last 'Radium Girls,' Dies At 107

    Science has a way of learning things the hard way.. So while they explore, I'm going to do my best not to get it.
     
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  16. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Facui isn't a political advisor.

    When you claim that CNN, MSNBC, Dr.Fauci, or CDC say something, You don't need compare multiple sources of information.. You only need to show where on CNN, MSNBC, or CDC. they make the statement that you claim they did. If you say that Dr. Faucci made a ridiculous statement about something, then you only need to show where he's quoted in a reliable source or show a video of him actually saying it. Either one would work because news networks who were present could confirm the quotes.

    Why would go to multiple sources to compare information? He either said it or he didn't. If he said it, then you should be able to find multiple evidence of him actually making statements. If he didn't say it, then you won't find such evidence. Which is why when you don't don't post a source, people assume that you don't know what you are talking about.
    If you can quote the CDC, CNN, Dr.Fauci, or MSNBC and show the source of where they made the statements then there's no need to look at varying information from non-associated sources. When you see me actually use Kung Fu in a video then why would you go to some non-associated source in attempt to find inconsistencies. I can guarantee that if I make the same claims about my martial arts skills in an MMA forum (without videos), that youll see alot of inconsistencies of what people think vs what people have seen me do.
     
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  17. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    There's not much you can do to change his mind. People like that who don't use critical thinking skills to think things through aren't going to change their minds. Trying to stay in line the the Rules here. Just highlighting how people know of the danger and still put out stuff like this. When I heard Hermain Cain was sick, I was hoping that he would make it through in hopes that going through it, would make him speak about the reality of COVID-19, but unfortuanltely he didn't survive it. Things didn't go his way nor my way. I think he would have put away the games and the crazy talk if he would have survived.
     

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  18. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    But to make it worse, someone is posting hyper partisan tweets from his account posthumously, including this one, pushing the very misinformation we've been discussing. This is in incredibly poor taste:

    cainjpg.jpg

    I should mention that this tweet has since been deleted, but there are plenty of others, since his account has been resurrected (no pun intended).
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
  19. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    They keep trying to blame deaths on underlying causes. My guess "underlying causes" also include "Catching a cold," sore throat, bronchitis, the flu and other illnesses that people usually get in the winter. If this is accurate then look at the age groups that are most likely affected. Colds also cause respiratory issue. If my thought's about this are correct then we could see a large number of younger people die from COVID-19. Unfortunately no one has asked the question "What are my chances of beating COVID-19 if I have a cold"

    upload_2020-9-2_20-34-32.png
     
  20. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Can You Get Two Colds at Once? (source: Can You Get Two Colds at Once?)

    From the link above.
    "In 2009, scientists were able to sequence all of the genetic material from the 99 known strains of rhinovirus. They found that coinfection with multiple strains is a common occurrence. They also found that coinfection provided viruses an opportunity to mutate into new strains.

    Diagnostic tests for many of the viruses that cause colds have now become commercially available. In 2013, doctors used these tests to study 225 children in day care. Almost half were infected with more than one virus when they got sick. Children infected with multiple viruses did not appear to be sicker than those infected with a single virus, but they stayed sick longer. These findings were recently confirmed by a systematic review of all published studies."123
     
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