Why is it that Budo Taijutsu attracts so many law enforcement & military people?

[Brian R. VanCise]

Okay, so why do you think that Budo Taijutsu attracts so many law enforcement, security and military people? I actually think that there are multiple reasons but I am interested in hearing your opinions.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[Monadnock]

Are there any statistics to show that more LEO, Security and Military personnel choose BBT over other styles?

My impression is that they typically gravitate towards BJJ and MMA. But I only have my own experiences to go on.

 

[Bigshadow]

At our small dojo we have had 3 LEOs and 2 Prison Security personnel train with us. One of them just started last week. I don't know if it is true that BT attracts them, or if there are any statistics regarding it.

Conversely, I have often wondered if many martial artists from other styles gravitate toward BBT after many years of their primary art as it seems many of the people I personally know practiced other arts for many years. However, I am sure it is just my circle rather than a trend.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I do not know about the attraction of Law enforcement and related type people to Budo Taijutsu, I have never been to one and I do not believe there are any in my area, but I did recently check out a couple of MMA schools and they were loaded with them. One seemed to have the entire local swat team as members.

But from what little I know about Budo Taijutsu it would make sense to me that they would gravitate towards that as well.

 

[Don Roley]

I do not think there is a lot of military and law enforcement in the Bujinkan as compared to other arts.

But I think those that do may be attracted by two things.

1- Hatsumi not only acknowledges that firearms exist, but has a book out on their use.

2- The guys that have to carry half their body weight in gear realize that an art built around heavy armor still has some merit.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

I do not think there is a lot of military and law enforcement in the Bujinkan as compared to other arts.

But I think those that do may be attracted by two things.

1- Hatsumi not only acknowledges that firearms exist, but has a book out on their use.

2- The guys that have to carry half their body weight in gear realize that an art built around heavy armor still has some merit.

On the boards (MT, etc.) BBT practioners with some sort of military or LEO experience are in greater proportion, in my experience, to those of other arts. However; my experience is limited to the boards on BBT, for the most part.

I also think the fact that you deal with weapons frequently and non-sporting scenarios and techniques makes BBT very attractive to LEO's and Armed Forces personnel.

Just two cents from a noninvolved spectator.

 

[Drac]

A long, long time ago when I became a cop there were no schools that taught Budo Taijutsu..There seemed to be a TKD school on every other street corner and nver wishing to be part of the herd I chose the only Shorin-Ryu dojo in the area..Had there been BT school I'd have given it a look because as Don Roley says "The guys that have to carry half their body weight in gear realize that an art built around heavy armor still has some merit"...

 

[Carol]

Uh, because it's easier to sell LEO's on being a Ninja than an art that involves a lot of Kata and/or manipulation of chi?

 

[budoboy]

Repeating what others have said here I don't believe BBT has any more police or military involved than any other arts that I know of. I'm a cop and most of my co-workes train some type of MMA or RBSD system. I did Bujinkan for years and knew a few cop practicioners and now do Systema and train with a few cops. Not much has changed.

I think police officers are interested in what works. Usually they don't care too much for traditional foreign customs or weapons, etc. that they won't face day to day.

Hatsumi Sensei does do some gun work but I've only seen very little of it. The use of armor only applies to small group of police officers who wear armor heavy enough to change their movement considerably. Also doing any kind of defensive tactics in that armor will inspire necessary adaptations.

Jeff

 

[Monadnock]

Another thing I have seen, is that when one officer gets involved, he usually tells his colleagues, and more join in. So for Martial Arts in general, I think there tends to be more people in that line of work overall than others.

Come to think of it, a lot of cops like Aikido and Judo was quite popular for the military.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Okay, since this is an opinion question I will post some of what I have seen. Most of the top American Budo Taijutsu practitioners have a background in the military, LEO, security etc. Think of, Phil Legare, Prather, Seago, Hoban, etc and the list goes on. Now, I have almost never been to a Dojo that did not have an LEO, Military or security presence. So why do people think that Budo Taijutsu attracts these people and if you think it does not attract these kinds of people based on your experience then post why as well.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[rutherford]

Uh, because it's easier to sell LEO's on being a Ninja than an art that involves a lot of Kata and/or manipulation of chi?

While there are certainly lots AND LOTS of kata within the schools of the Bujinkan, they're used as examples of movement that teach specific lessons and not simply tools for memory practiced by rote.

I think the emphasis on flowing and correct movement, with exploration and adaptability as major training goals, brings people who have experienced violence to BBT.

Military and LEO people understand that violence is chaotic, fast, and brutal. Adaptability and an understanding of human movement is essential for surviving it, and how many kata you've memorized is not.

 

[budoboy]

I see the number of professional soldier/security types at the top of the Bujinkan hierarchy as a result of several factors:

1) People in these fields often take training seriously and since their careers often span decades then so does their training. This long-term commitment to practice will eventually, by attrition, make these people seniors practicioners/instructors.

2) Hatsumi Sensei takes interest in and promotes these people, in my opinion, based on the credibility these people bring the Bujinkan, their potential to expand the art into large governmental organizations and a desire to keep the art relevant to combat.

3) On a negative note military and law enforcement types sometimes have a desire exert social dominance over others. For some this is part of the attraction to their career paths. The hierarchacal rank structure in many martial arts often fulfills this need to feel important or command respect.

These are only my opinions and I certainly welcome debate.

Jeff

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I once mentioned to my current teacher that I thought it would be interesting to see Jeff Prather's video on military CQC based on Budo Taijutsu (which I still haven't seen personally). He said that it probably wouldn't be very interesting at all. When I asked why, he said that the reason I found it interesting was the same reason he wasn't interested in it.:idunno:

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Nimravus,

If you get a chance to see Pather's CQC based video or his Extreme Disarms DVD they are both good to watch and have some valuable information.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[ginshun]

I think that the MA's in general attract LEOs, and BT doesn't really attract a higher percentage than any other one. From my own personal experiece, I think a lot of LEO type people gravitate toward Aikido and MMA more than they do toward BT. I personally think that this may be because tiajutsu has so many techniques that are designed to actually harm the other person. Aikido and MMA techniques are designed to submit as opposed to actually kill or maim, where as many taijutsu techniques can be used "softer" so to speak,but that is not how they were specifically designed.

Or maybe I am way off here, dunno thats how it seems to me though.

 

[Don Roley]

I think I figured out the reason why it seems that so many police and military study Bujinkan.

Some martial artists also practice with firearms. But their firearm practice is seperated from their martial arts practice. They do not learn how to draw and shoot while grappling with someone in the dojo. But Bujinkan does. You use a firearm with the same principles as your taijutsu and just as a sword compliments your taijutsu but does not require a whole new outlook on the way you do things, firearms and their use are not seperate but part of taijutsu.

So here we discuss a lot of things about firearms. People who have been around firearms chime in with their insight about the realities to let those that are only learning in the dojo to understand the reason behind many things. Since they talk about their experiences in the police and military they stand out on a martial arts board. And that is why it would seem that there are a lot of military and police in the Bujinkan. I think that there are plenty of people in other arts that have the same experiences, but it just does not have any relevance to what they do in the dojo and so they don't mention it here.

 

[mystic warrior]

Okay, since this is an opinion question I will post some of what I have seen. Most of the top American Budo Taijutsu practitioners have a background in the military, LEO, security etc. Think of, Phil Legare, Prather, Seago, Hoban, etc and the list goes on. Now, I have almost never been to a Dojo that did not have an LEO, Military or security presence. So why do people think that Budo Taijutsu attracts these people and if you think it does not attract these kinds of people based on your experience then post why as well.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

As a former marine, I would that the art is a no BS kind of art.
Its not a sport art, it gets to the meat of what it is like to fight some one.
Also it dosn't pretend to be some thing it is not. Like some arts say that they are fighting arts.
But most of them are just waste of time and money and for the most part sport.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I think I figured out the reason why it seems that so many police and military study Bujinkan.

Some martial artists also practice with firearms. But their firearm practice is seperated from their martial arts practice. They do not learn how to draw and shoot while grappling with someone in the dojo. But Bujinkan does. You use a firearm with the same principles as your taijutsu and just as a sword compliments your taijutsu but does not require a whole new outlook on the way you do things, firearms and their use are not seperate but part of taijutsu.

So here we discuss a lot of things about firearms. People who have been around firearms chime in with their insight about the realities to let those that are only learning in the dojo to understand the reason behind many things. Since they talk about their experiences in the police and military they stand out on a martial arts board. And that is why it would seem that there are a lot of military and police in the Bujinkan. I think that there are plenty of people in other arts that have the same experiences, but it just does not have any relevance to what they do in the dojo and so they don't mention it here.

Hey Don,

I think that is just one of the many reasons why LEO's, Military and Security personel like Budo Taijutsu. (Definately it is an important reason)
I also think that many find it attractive because of the body dynamics used and that they are consistently learning how to off balance and acheive positions of control that are not size, strength relative. Just a thought.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I also think that many find it attractive because of the body dynamics used and that they are consistently learning how to off balance and acheive positions of control that are not size, strength relative.

I actually doubt that people plan that far ahead before beginning training in any martial art, professionals or not.