Why don't Kyokushin practitioners bulk up a little bit?

Discussion in 'Karate' started by 666, Dec 30, 2017.

  1. 666

    666 Orange Belt

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    Oyama himself wasn't that small and there's footage of him lifting weights.
    In one of his books he says that lifting weighs is the best way of getting strong for younger people (also that strength is the most important part between strength, speed and technique).
    Also apparently his mountain training routine was heavily influenced by lifting.
    But it looks like most Japanese practitioners are relatively small, so why is that?
     
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  2. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Maybe because the ones you've seen don't want to lift weights maybe?
     
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  3. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

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    genetics for starters.
    but to ask why a demographic doesn't lift weights is a simple answer ...they have no interest in it. Martial arts is a hobby. weight lifting is another but separate hobby. some may like to combine the two for performance reasons but if your not a competitive athlete there is no reason to other than enjoyment. the fact that your asking this question infers one of two meanings. either there is a genuine curiosity about the lack of body building in Japanese culture or you feel "everyone should lift weights". in which case you are not the arbiter of peoples hobbies, they do what they enjoy doing.
    aside from that, Japanese culture has major time restrictions on people. they dont have time to do many hobbies (if at all). i believe the bulk of martial arts training is done at the school level for children. perhaps it is even practiced as an extra credit course in school. but outside of that people dont have time.
     
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  4. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Yep pretty much. I like fitness training I like running and yes that helps with martial arts and my cardio but its not a necessary thing I do body weight stuff to stay strong but lifting weights frankly bores me to death any time I ever tried to do it I literally couldn't for more than a few minutes it's simply not for me and again no necessary
     
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  5. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    I’d be very, very surprised if Oyama said strength is more important than technique and speed.

    Could you be misinterpreting strength of character or the like?

    As for competitive Kyokushin practitioners, strength training is very common. Not sure where you’re getting your information from, other than making (false) assumptions based on what people look like while wearing a full gi.
     
  6. 666

    666 Orange Belt

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    Check out "Mas Oyama's Essential Karate", the section about weight training.
    Oh, but I should mention that it states that speed is closely related to strength thus both aspects are important.
     
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  7. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    I don’t own it. Can you give us a quote? I’m not saying you’re lying; I’m just saying I’m very surprised by it.

    I’ve been meaning to buy a copy of it, actually. Is that the one that’s basically a reprint and update of “This is Karate?”
     
  8. 666

    666 Orange Belt

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    "There are three important things in karate:
    strength, speed, and technique. Out of these three,
    strength could be said to be the most important.
    However, strength is very much associated with
    speed; therefore, the karateka cannot achieve one
    without the other. From my experience, I can say
    that the karateka should devote himself to developing strength and speed while he is young, and
    not depend solely on technique. Karate techniques
    are especially important for those whose physical
    strength may have lessened with age."

    I wasn't trying to say that everything else is useless I just wanted to point out that he thought lifting and strength is important.
     
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  9. 666

    666 Orange Belt

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    I don't know, I only own that and "The Kyokushin Way: Mas Oyama's Karate Philosophy".
     
  10. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Just because doesn't have body builders muscles doesn't mean they're not strong you know. There's plenty of guys who look small but are extremely strong and powerful
     
  11. Anarax

    Anarax 2nd Black Belt

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    I think Oyama was more so referring to power rather than strength. Not all weight training is the same thus different types of weight training will accomplish different goals. For example; look at the difference between a power lifer and a body builder. Their training, look and type of "strength" varies greatly. Power lifters train for functionality and have more explosive power than a body builder. The body builder looks "stronger", but won't be able to lift that of a power lifter. The point being they both lift weights but couldn't be more dissimilar.

    There are certain types of weight training that can be a hindrance to a martial artist, they can slow you down if the inappropriate type of training is done. However; there are forms of resistance(weights, bands, pool) training that could greatly benefit a martial artist. Just use some discretion when selecting what type of resistance training to do, for it could work against you as a martial artist.

    Genetics also play a factor into it as well. Everyone's body responds to workouts as well. For example; two people can have the same diet and workout but their bodies will look differently. Metabolism, genetics and bone structure/alignment are all factors into how your body will respond to resistance training.
     
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  12. 666

    666 Orange Belt

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    I know, but there are weight classes for a reason. Otherwise we'd see boxing matches between a 60kg and a 120kg guy.
    I bring this stuff up because Oyama himself was pretty solid. If it was a disadvantage he just could've loose some weight.
    I'm not referring to roid users with big *** muscles, beyond natural limits.
     
  13. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    No one has said it's a disadvantage but its also not necessary either. Again one ill always say look at the early UFC tournaments no weight classes and all won by the smallest guy
     
  14. 666

    666 Orange Belt

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    Please send me some links, and not that one fight with the 600 pound dude or anything like that, because that's not what I meant.
    I've seen some of the fights but it's not like they are small for their height, it's just that the other guy is even taller and bigger lol.
    So that's what I mean, the smaller guys still have a foundation.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  15. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Just type in Royce Gracie highlights you'll find hundreds of them but here's the biggest example

     
  16. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    Welcome to MartialTalk, 666.

    I'm not sure about Kyokushin guys lifting or not lifting. Probably some do and some don't.
    Do you have any thoughts on it?
     
  17. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Sam Greco?

    Andy Hug?
     
  18. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Also another thing you have to think about, how do you know how big or strong someone is...I mean how many kyokushin guys do you see without their shirts on? A GI can make anyone look not so big. Myself I know I'm strong but I also know I look skinny as hell in normal clothes
     
  19. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  20. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Kenji Midori was 5’5 and 154 lbs when he won the 5th Kyokushin World Open Championship. The reason this is significant is because he was by far the lightest person to ever win it. I’m quite sure he was single-digit body fat at that time too. So his 154 lbs isn’t an everyday person’s 154 lbs.

    Have you seen Fighting Black Kings? That movie shows guys from all over getting ready for the 1st World championship. The Japanese guys may have been shorter and smaller framed compared to Willie Williams and Charles Martin, but they were on par with pretty much everyone else. Katsuaki Sato was a bit bigger than most of the Japanese, but not much. According to google, he was almost 5’11 and 183 lbs. Not small IMO, and he did a lot of weight training.

    Look at the more recent guys - Hajime Kazuki, Francisco Filho, Ewerton Teixeira, Artur Hovanissyan. They’re quite big. When they’re standing next to each other and in gis, it’s not easy to tell how big these guys really are.

    And who could forget the most famous Kyokushin fighter of all time - Dolph Lundgren... aka Ivan Drago.
     
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