Was Oyama fake?

Discussion in 'Karate' started by 666, Jan 5, 2018.

  1. 666

    666 Orange Belt

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    First of all, I'm not saying he's fake but I came across this video and wanna hear your opinion about it.

     
  2. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Seeing as he's a world famous martial artist I very much doubt he was a fake
     
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  3. 666

    666 Orange Belt

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    What do you say about the bull fight footage?
     
  4. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    He was a legitimately great martial artist, but the "bullfighting" stunt was bs. (I read an article by one of his top European students years ago saying the same thing.) I'll also call shenanigans on the claim I read in one of his books that he tested his knife hands by breaking the necks of full grown German Shepards until the humane societies started complaining.

    It's worth remembering that Obama did a stint on the pro wrestling circuit in the U.S. and later presented that experience as being a tour where he fought all comers in real challenge matches and was undefeated in 270 fights. The man was not a stranger to hucksterism.
     
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  5. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

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    oh man...where to start..

    Mas Oyama was real. the mash up editing of the video and the implied narrative....not so much.
    i do not know the source of the video but i would imagine its editing was someone other than Oyama himself. So the Youtube narrator seemed to be focused on the Bull horn. without viewing the original video i feel the edited version of the footage added the horn after the fact and was not part of Oyamas performance. he was known to "karate chop" off a bull horn and i think the film editor added the horn being thrown on the ground to show this. however it looks to me that Oyama may not have been able to do this stunt on this particular day or perhaps the footage was not sufficent quality for the video.
    the YouTube Narrator says "if Oyama could produce the g forces to smash though solid bone" .......new flash a horn is not really solid bone there is a bone center but the actual horn is a keratin covering.
    it is clear the Youtube narrator was critical of the hollywood mash up, this should be separated from what Oyama was actually doing. Hollywood types have a way of screwing everything up.
    Oyama was wrestling the bull to the ground. in itself it doesnt look impressive, especially to those unfamilar with cattle and bulls. i know i couldnt do it. Oyama was also known to kill bulls with a punch to the head. however the tale is a little over blown, the tale i heard was that he did kill a bull with punches ..yes multiple punches to its skull over a three day span (if my memory is correct) i would challenge anyone to do that!!!
    so yes Oyama was for real but we have a tendency to make the fish bigger with every telling.
     
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  6. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    That's fake doesn't mean he is
     
  7. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    Here is the full footage:

    To the best of my knowledge, that's the only known footage of his supposed bullfighting. He made this clip (where the horn break is clearly faked) and then later claimed to have done the same thing on multiple occasions, but I'm not aware of any documentation for those claims.
     
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  8. 666

    666 Orange Belt

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    Great answer man. Do you still know where you heard about the three-day-bull-killing?
    But yeah, this is the type of answer I was looking for.
     
  9. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

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    the hollywood type production is still funny. but if we really look at what he is really doing, wrestling a bull to the ground, its pretty impressive. i would point out that at the very end of the clip it is noticeable that the bull is actually missing a horn. however its hard to tell if Oyama broke it off or it came off when when the bull fell to the ground.
     
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  10. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

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    its possible it is in his Kyokushin book, i will have to look. if you think about it its kind of cruel if its true
     
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  11. 666

    666 Orange Belt

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    Also came across this:

    He says somebody hit the horn with a hammer before.
    Also he says Oyama didn't kill any bull.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  12. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    I’ve read a lot about Oyama. Stuff written by his fanboys, stuff written by his critics, and stuff written by people in the middle.

    Oyama was a great martial artist. That’s pretty much the only universally agreed upon thing.

    My opinion is he probably did some staged things once or twice, and the publicity of it went out of control. He probably wrestled down a few young bulls here and there to promote the strength of his karate, and it probably ballooned into 100s of full grown bulls. I’ve read that the bull’s horns were sawed pretty far down before he “chopped them off.” He probably did this a handful of times and it ballooned into 100s of horns.

    I’m sure he did some tricks to promote Kyokushin. The tabloids and his followers most likely exaggerated what actually happened. Then others exaggerated it even more. And on and on.

    I think Oyama himself didn’t play up the stuff, but I think he was definitely content to sit there and hear others play up his stuff without correcting them.

    Maybe I’m way off. Just what I’ve seen.
     
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  13. 666

    666 Orange Belt

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    I agree.
    In his book "The Kyokushin Way" he says he killed someone with a single punch, also that was stated in an article in one of those Black Belt magazines, but he didn't go to jail cause it was self defense. Also this shyt comes up in the manga/anime, fighter in the wind movie stuff.
    So I guess this is something confirmed? That would mean he killed a human and a damn bull with one strike, but I guess if you can one strike a bull you can do that to a human too.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  14. Tames D

    Tames D RECKLESS

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    Ashida Kim is a world famous martial artist.
     
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  15. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    I can’t get enough of Ashida Kim. But for entirely different reasons.

    At least what Oyama actually taught on the floor has been proven effective. No “forbidden fist,” dodging bullets, disappearing, etc...


    There’s exaggeration of exploits, then there’s Ashida Kim.
     
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  16. 666

    666 Orange Belt

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    What the F is this? lol
     
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  17. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    Ohhhhhhh.....you gonna get it. The Black Dragon Society gonna come after you. Not smart to make fun of members of the super secret ninja society.
     
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  18. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Yeah, but at least it won’t be too bad, all things considered...

    I won’t see or hear them coming, because they’re ninjas

    I won’t be screaming in pain, because again, they’re ninjas

    They’ll just cut my throat in the night. Or poison dart me in the neck. I’ll be walking around minding my own business, then everything will just quickly fade to black. Maybe a little pinch or mosquito bite feeling beforehand, but that’s about it.
     
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  19. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    I’ve seen that one so many times and I keep asking myself the same exact thing, word for word. Only I don’t censor myself. It never gets old. You can’t intentionally make something that comical.
     
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  20. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

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    the clip did show Oyama actually wrestling a bull (ox... whatever) i think if Ashida was in front of a bull he would do one of those ninja disappearing tricks rather than wrestle it.
     

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