Why do you like fighting?

[Transk53]

Dopamine is related to pleasure among other things that is correct to say?? Do you think it is possible dopamine to get released when fighting? and why might this be so if by our ethical, moral and societal standards, fighting is apparently quite the opposite to pleasurable? Thank you!

Who knows. Probably more technical than it needs to be. Most be people are hard wired to fight, but that term fight means most won't go toe to toe. Probably more verbal, than actually striking physically. For me the ability to do harm is hard wired, because you don't think about it, you just do it. Chemical reactions just don't exsist in my thoughts.

 

[Jenna]

Our ethical standards are manufactured though. And we are basically gorillas. We are still set up to fight for girls and compete for rescourses.

There is a mental element where if you are winning a fight you are psychologically helped along and if you are loosing you are psycologically hindered. And that is all different sets of chemical release.

Thank you.. so then you are not to blame if you find your self in a position where you are fighting -not sparring- fighting and enjoying it??

 

[Jenna]

Who knows. Probably more technical than it needs to be. Most be people are hard wired to fight, but that term fight means most won't go toe to toe. Probably more verbal, than actually striking physically. For me the ability to do harm is hard wired, because you don't think about it, you just do it. Chemical reactions just don't exsist in my thoughts.

Thank you.. can I ask please if we are hard wired to fight, would you say does that preclude our choice not to?

 

[Transk53]

Thank you.. can I ask please if we are hard wired to fight, would you say does that preclude our choice not to?

Yes I would. Fight or Flight syndrome. Flight the mind looks for avenues of escape. To that end it is necessary. Fight means taking away the opportunity for the opponent to do harm. IE, tickle them, making sure that they realise that they have picked on the wrong person. Most will submit and say no worries mate. Determined to convey their manhood, will go and stupidly think about going toe to toe. Now this isn't chemical reactions, just pride.

They don't want to do it, in this sense, chemical reactions do play a part, but not in a aggressive manner, their brains say retreat, but pride overides this. It could be many environmental factors, the bird, or the false sensation from alcohol or drugs, or just the momentary high. Most will reteat within themselves, and then back down.

Some though that are hard wired, will think that the threat is minimal. As such will just look for the opportunity. There is no preclusion from choice, it is what it is. Fight or flight, it is hard wired.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Thank you.. so then you are not to blame if you find your self in a position where you are fighting -not sparring- fighting and enjoying it??

Unlike other animals, we have an executive center in our brain, which allows us to consider long-term consequences. Using that ability early in a situation (often before the situation, to avoid it), is part of our ethical responsibility.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yes I would. Fight or Flight syndrome. Flight the mind looks for avenues of escape. To that end it is necessary. Fight means taking away the opportunity for the opponent to do harm. IE, tickle them, making sure that they realise that they have picked on the wrong person. Most will submit and say no worries mate. Determined to convey their manhood, will go and stupidly think about going toe to toe. Now this isn't chemical reactions, just pride.

They don't want to do it, in this sense, chemical reactions do play a part, but not in a aggressive manner, their brains say retreat, but pride overides this. It could be many environmental factors, the bird, or the false sensation from alcohol or drugs, or just the momentary high. Most will reteat within themselves, and then back down.

Some though that are hard wired, will think that the threat is minimal. As such will just look for the opportunity. There is no preclusion from choice, it is what it is. Fight or flight, it is hard wired.

It's more than just fight-or-flight. That's the chemical response (mostly) from the amygdala, the "reptile brain", where our emotions are centered. The executive center (in the forebrain, the last part to develop as we grow), can override much of the amygdala's instruction. This is where we have the choice of whether to fight or not, even when the amygdala is dumping the fight chemicals.

 

[Transk53]

It's more than just fight-or-flight. That's the chemical response (mostly) from the amygdala, the "reptile brain", where our emotions are centered. The executive center (in the forebrain, the last part to develop as we grow), can override much of the amygdala's instruction. This is where we have the choice of whether to fight or not, even when the amygdala is dumping the fight chemicals.

Sorry I have a reptile brain. Don't understand the choice bit too much, only in the sense that it is a particularly bad to pick a fight with me. Then again I am not quite right in the head, so perhaps my response region is just a little bit simplistic. I do see you're point though, if not for the fact I haven't gota clue what a "amygdala" is.

 

[Jenna]

Yes I would. Fight or Flight syndrome. Flight the mind looks for avenues of escape. To that end it is necessary. Fight means taking away the opportunity for the opponent to do harm. IE, tickle them, making sure that they realise that they have picked on the wrong person. Most will submit and say no worries mate. Determined to convey their manhood, will go and stupidly think about going toe to toe. Now this isn't chemical reactions, just pride.

They don't want to do it, in this sense, chemical reactions do play a part, but not in a aggressive manner, their brains say retreat, but pride overides this. It could be many environmental factors, the bird, or the false sensation from alcohol or drugs, or just the momentary high. Most will reteat within themselves, and then back down.

Some though that are hard wired, will think that the threat is minimal. As such will just look for the opportunity. There is no preclusion from choice, it is what it is. Fight or flight, it is hard wired.

Thank you for your perspective.. do not know I am pushing my luck to ask another question.. still.. I can ask you some thing frank.. how much do you like to be violent? Also.. if you believed you would not be caught because you knew the person who have attack you would not make any thing of it.. like police etc.. would that change your view of how you would fight either way?? thank you

 

[Jenna]

It's more than just fight-or-flight. That's the chemical response (mostly) from the amygdala, the "reptile brain", where our emotions are centered. The executive center (in the forebrain, the last part to develop as we grow), can override much of the amygdala's instruction. This is where we have the choice of whether to fight or not, even when the amygdala is dumping the fight chemicals.

So the old brain say to fight.. or flee.. or freeze as often happen as part of autonomic response also.. and but then forebrain call this order into question with consequences and advisability of courses of action?? So then how can we know it is essential to fight for self-preservation -or that of beloved- when we are second guessing our automatic response?? hope this make sense.. thank you

 

[Transk53]

Thank you for your perspective.. do not know I am pushing my luck to ask another question.. still.. I can ask you some thing frank.. how much do you like to be violent? Also.. if you believed you would not be caught because you knew the person who have attack you would not make any thing of it.. like police etc.. would that change your view of how you would fight either way?? thank you

Jenna, you really know how to ask the akward stuff. Okay, viloence. Okay to me that will be strongly biased to my childhood. How much do I like to be violent, I don't.

Now here is the contradiction, I love the idea of being violent, because being beaten as a child, this is the only recorse. But no, morals have a influence on my stance to all things.

Making anything of an attack is pointless, it is what it is. Well that is part of how I see it.

The latter. No.

 

[oaktree]

I do not enjoy violence to me hurting someone is one of the worse actions as humans we can do to each other. Understanding that an opponent is essentially us in that they to are a brother, son, perhaps a parent and have to a lesser or greater same motives in life of pursuit of happiness I can not in good conscious seek enjoyment of causing harm. I remember ny neighbor getting angry wanting to fight, I saw his kids watching, his wife, his mother to injure him and take pleasure would be me taking pleasure in making them worry and feel pain. Understanding that self defense and injury or taking of a life is a fate that if someone foolishly does try to do me harm that i may have to defend myself I pray as a priest for that poor unfortunate soul.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sorry I have a reptile brain. Don't understand the choice bit too much, only in the sense that it is a particularly bad to pick a fight with me. Then again I am not quite right in the head, so perhaps my response region is just a little bit simplistic. I do see you're point though, if not for the fact I haven't gota clue what a "amygdala" is.

The amygdala is a small bit of your brain, shaped like an almond, that produces many of your emotions. It is the primary influence in the anger response, as well as most stress/danger responses.

 

[drop bear]

Thank you.. so then you are not to blame if you find your self in a position where you are fighting -not sparring- fighting and enjoying it??

Correct. You are responsible for your actions though.

I know plenty of good people who love a fight. Now they are not walking the streets like some sort of undiffused bomb.

I hated to fight and took it out on the guy that forced me to.

Or I just fought because I was getting paid.

I mean the moral high ground is pretty fuzzy.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So the old brain say to fight.. or flee.. or freeze as often happen as part of autonomic response also.. and but then forebrain call this order into question with consequences and advisability of courses of action?? So then how can we know it is essential to fight for self-preservation -or that of beloved- when we are second guessing our automatic response?? hope this make sense.. thank you

The executive center is more focused on long-term consequences. In the case of self-preservation and preservation of those we love, it is likely to agree with the very reactionary and emotional reptile brain. The reptile brain wants to act (fight or flee) in response to the perceived danger. There's only a conflict if the executive center sees a negative outcome as likely. So, when someone gets "in my face" over some perceived slight, my reptile brain wants to engage with this perceived threat, and remove it. My executive center recognizes the threat isn't imminent, and understands the legal repercussions, the possibility of getting injured, etc.

 

[Transk53]

The amygdala is a small bit of your brain, shaped like an almond, that produces many of your emotions. It is the primary influence in the anger response, as well as most stress/danger responses.

Right. Going to ask Sifu today about that today. Interesting stuff and I thank you for bringing that up. Making me think about Wing Chun and what would be the likely response if a practioner saw the red mist, and used Wing Chun.

I think a lot of people would resort to some kind of primal response, irrespective of whether training is there or not. I mean I have had where "maybe I should have done that instead" moments on reflection. Mind though certain things in the context of job, do have lawful limitations, but emotional content seems to float between reason and actual action.

Can I ask though, to you stress and danger. Are they linked to the point that stress triggers a danger response. IE the full on " I am going to have to fight" Or would that be down to the person with training, apposed to the one with not. Sorry I am rambling a bit.

 

[Transk53]

Correct. You are responsible for your actions though.

I know plenty of good people who love a fight. Now they are not walking the streets like some sort of undiffused bomb.

I hated to fight and took it out on the guy that forced me to.

Or I just fought because I was getting paid.

I mean the moral high ground is pretty fuzzy.[/QUOTE]

It is, but doesn't have to be that way on a personal level. Of course though, that is what controls it to a certain extent. I mean you ain't going to batter a computer geek who loves wrestling too much. That would just be so wrong

 

[Jenna]

Jenna, you really know how to ask the akward stuff. Okay, viloence. Okay to me that will be strongly biased to my childhood. How much do I like to be violent, I don't.

Now here is the contradiction, I love the idea of being violent, because being beaten as a child, this is the only recorse. But no, morals have a influence on my stance to all things.

Making anything of an attack is pointless, it is what it is. Well that is part of how I see it.

The latter. No.

Some time it is difficult or even impossible to be forthright over childhood circumstance.. some time people find liberty in being straight out.. whichever for you, I appreciate your comment, there can be no aspersion cast upon you for how you are now nor do I see contradiction just a person trying his best.. this is my view having perhaps shared some of that circumstance xo.. To make some thing of an attack is pointless you have said.. yes.. I cannot disagree with how I think you mean that.. Is black and white though or can there be mitigation? like what if some one who would seek to vent their anger physically and it is them that want to make some thing of it? like some one want to show me -or you- a lesson for not doing what they want.. do you think is ok then to make some thing of it??? thank you again

 

[Jenna]

Correct. You are responsible for your actions though.

I know plenty of good people who love a fight. Now they are not walking the streets like some sort of undiffused bomb.

You mean they roam around looking for an opportunity to fight? If so, do you know what they do with that need?

I hated to fight and took it out on the guy that forced me to.

Or I just fought because I was getting paid.

I mean the moral high ground is pretty fuzzy.

Fuzzy moral high ground.. yes I think you are right.. can you say any more about how you mean this please? thank you

 

[Jenna]

The executive center is more focused on long-term consequences. In the case of self-preservation and preservation of those we love, it is likely to agree with the very reactionary and emotional reptile brain. The reptile brain wants to act (fight or flee) in response to the perceived danger. There's only a conflict if the executive center sees a negative outcome as likely. So, when someone gets "in my face" over some perceived slight, my reptile brain wants to engage with this perceived threat, and remove it. My executive center recognizes the threat isn't imminent, and understands the legal repercussions, the possibility of getting injured, etc.

Thank you for helping me to understand that more clearly! and I want to ask you another question about this.. Like under what circumstances does the reptile or lower brain (if it is ok to call it that) overrule the executive or higher functions?? or does it not? will a fight only occur if the executive committee agree it is necessary?

 

[drop bear]

You mean they roam around looking for an opportunity to fight? If so, do you know what they do with that need?


Fuzzy moral high ground.. yes I think you are right.. can you say any more about how you mean this please? thank you

Not always. I know some spazzy guys who do but I am suggesting a person with decent morals doesn't look for fights but if the curcumstances require it they dont have any sort of aversion to fighting.

Lots of sports fighters do that so they have an outlet where they get to hit people. And they are still not unexploded bombs. Just normal people.

Fuzzy moral high ground? Because it is your job is hardly a good reason to beat a person up. Or some sort of deep seated paranoia that a fight will get them killed so they have to get in first. There are all sorts of moral justifications for fighting that are as ambiguous as because someone enjoys it.