Right on...the question is....How can you use shortcuts if you don't know the neighborhood?
why do beginners question there instructors
- Thread starter terryl965
- Start date
You'll never learn your way around if someone is always telling you where to go, got to explore a little on your own and figure things out for yourself.
Hi NP:wink2: !
I think we are in agreement. The problem arises when you don't want to listen to the "locals" suggestions. Can you find your way around? Yeah,eventually...but it would make it more rewarding to listen to them,no?
I think we are in agreement. The problem arises when you don't want to listen to the "locals" suggestions. Can you find your way around? Yeah,eventually...but it would make it more rewarding to listen to them,no?
Exploration is good, but it is must be tempered with some knowledge before hand. I look at it like a youngster exploring the woods, the first few times in teh woods they are with someone, that shows them what to look for and be wary of. You wouldn't drop a toddler off in the woods alon and expect them to survive, and you wouldn't expect a beginner to be able to understand the material of their art without the guidance of an instructor. Sometimes it is better to keep the mouth closed for a little while, and everything may be explained in the end, or better yet there is only enoght info given about the key points taht you get to piece it together. I can tell you something a hundred times and you not learn anything, but if i guide you and nudge you so that you find the answers you will always remember what you learned.
Having a guide is a big assest, but is the guide showing you the path, or helping you to create one?
Andrew Green said:
Not exactly sure what you are trying to say.
But one of the problems today is that students want everything right away, and toss things out way too quickly, just because it is difficult. I have noticed over last 20 years that many, people starting up in th arts want everything spoon fed to them, and are impatient at the same time. Part of the learning process is listening, and practicing sometheing over and over many times, then asking questions about it the technique. It seems many times like respect has completely gone out the window in many aspects of life, and it seems to be happening more often in martial arts schools. I personally won't answer a rude question, and let the person know it, if they chose to rephrase the question politely then I will answer it. Sometimes their reaction is a good measure of the person, if they get all hostile and beligerent it makes me wonder why they are in class, and makes reconsider whether i want to teach them.
The internet has been a wonderous invention, it has let us communicate and share with people around the world, but it has also created many problems in teh martial arts community. Slight vaiances in styles or instructors can cause problems when beginner starts reading everywhere and second guessing his instructor. Unless the school is a McDojo the instructor is the one at the front of the class for a reason. They have been there before, and with many students, they usually know the best route for the student whether the student can see it or not.
I'm saying that spoon feeding is exactly what most do, and it doesn't work. It just slows progress down.
If you want students to progress you got to let them find there own way and help them...
hmm... do I have to bring the stop the cloning campaign to this forum...
If you want students to progress you got to let them find there own way and help them...
hmm... do I have to bring the stop the cloning campaign to this forum...
Andrew Green said:I'm saying that spoon feeding is exactly what most do, and it doesn't work. It just slows progress down.
If you want students to progress you got to let them find there own way and help them...
hmm... do I have to bring the stop the cloning campaign to this forum...
Ther is a time for spoon feeding, it is with the absolute beginners. but too many people want it that way all the way throuh the belts. Our society has turned too much to an instant gratification society,a nd we want everything right now, and the lack of patience hurts our training more than an instructor who teaches slowly.
kelly keltner
Black Belt
Afrter reading this thread I'm glad to know that I am not the only person driven crazy by the what iffer's of the world.
kelly
kelly
Not just that, but one of fairness too.Rob Broad said:
It took this person 6 months to get this belt, I've been here 6 months I want my belt...
Different people progress at different rates. Some will never reach the level that others reach in a short period.
kenpo tiger
Senior Master
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Okay. I haven't posted to this thread since the beginning, but I've been reading it. I have a question for all of you now:
Do you single out the questioner, the student who 'wants it all and wants it now'?
Do you make him/her wait longer for her/his belt tests?
Have you explained to them the concept of 'nothing is worth having unless you have worked for it'?
That a black belt isn't there just to hold up your pants - it symbolizes expertise in the art??
Just curious. I'd like to hear what you all think.
Do you single out the questioner, the student who 'wants it all and wants it now'?
Do you make him/her wait longer for her/his belt tests?
Have you explained to them the concept of 'nothing is worth having unless you have worked for it'?
That a black belt isn't there just to hold up your pants - it symbolizes expertise in the art??
Just curious. I'd like to hear what you all think.
kenpo tiger said:
I try not to single out the questioner. I prefer to take them aside after class and explain that the chronic questions about every little detail, actually slows down the class, and they should give some consideration to the other members of the class. I let them know that by applying themselves the answers are right in front of them if they will take teh time too look.Some people think they have the right try an monolpolize the instructors time, and I suggest to them that they shoud be probably be doing private lessons.
kenpo tiger said:
Don't make the chronic questioner wait longer for belts, it happens naturally because they slow their own progress down. It seems to happen most of all to the instant master type who thinks their 20 lessons have given them enough experience to suggest better ways to do things.
kenpo tiger said:
I have said the exact words many times, but to the chronic quesyioner it just adds another dozen questions. Some people would rather question everything than do the work. These people usually leave after a hang and bang class, where we rip apart the basics and do them over and and over and over again. Many of us call these guy armchair martial artists. They know a lot fo theory and want to know more but they haven't nor probably never will put the time in on the floor to be good enoughto use that theory.
kenpo tiger said:
I actually tell my students that the Black Belt is just the beginning. It symbolizes that you have the basics down well enough to move onto advanced material.
kenpo tiger said:
Those are my answers to the questions, I am anxious to read everyone elses answers.
No, they single themselves out. Depending on the questions they ask they might move faster or slower then if they just shut up and did what they where told.kenpo tiger said:
I don't give belts to adults.
Sure, but questioning and wanting everything right now are two different things.
And truthfully... its not always true. If I won a lottery that check would definately be worth having, but I didn't work for it.
Moral lessons tend to not work as well if they are full of confilicting examples...
No it doesn't
And it's got nothing to do with keeping pants up, it is there to hold the jacket closed.
Flatlander
Grandmaster
I haven't enough experience yet to be teaching, but am a student, (I would like to think a decent one), and I wanted to comment on this:
Admittedly, I have been guilty of this. But I have grown beyond that. Maybe it's just a matter of time, and of putting things in context. But I'll tell you one thing. Martial Talk has helped me huge. Being able to read the thoughts of such qualified people really helps me understand what IS important, and how to define my own goals and expectations. Perhaps it may be helpful for these incessant questioners to just sit down casually, outside of the dojo or whatever, and just discuss things with some of the seniors. Talk about their martial paths, discuss their goals and reasons for training.
My two cents. Won't get you much, but read 50 of my posts, and there's your morning coffee!
Rob - totally accurate here. I think that as modern Western society has developed at an alarming rate in the last couple of generations, the work ethic of the average person has decreased significantly. How many people do you all know that put in the amount of effort in their day to day lives as our grandparents did? Or their parents? I believe that the tendency of the newer or more youthful student to desire achievement, as opposed to develop skill, can be a manifestation of youthful ignorance coupled with just being a product of this contemporary mindset.Rob Broad said:
Admittedly, I have been guilty of this. But I have grown beyond that. Maybe it's just a matter of time, and of putting things in context. But I'll tell you one thing. Martial Talk has helped me huge. Being able to read the thoughts of such qualified people really helps me understand what IS important, and how to define my own goals and expectations. Perhaps it may be helpful for these incessant questioners to just sit down casually, outside of the dojo or whatever, and just discuss things with some of the seniors. Talk about their martial paths, discuss their goals and reasons for training.
My two cents. Won't get you much, but read 50 of my posts, and there's your morning coffee!
Andrew,I think we are in agreement,but just coming from different areas. The thing is, you have to know your basics,that is why they are called "basics" they are a starting point for every technique that you can do.
The problem is when people don't have a firm grasp of the basics and want to debate the basics. Why? I think Rob nailed it,we live in an age of "instant gratification",and people want, whatever they want, yesterday! It's no fun if they have to actually "work" for it.
After you know your basics and can apply them in your own way,then I will say.."All right,go have fun!" Until then,please practice and learn them for yourself.
The problem is when people don't have a firm grasp of the basics and want to debate the basics. Why? I think Rob nailed it,we live in an age of "instant gratification",and people want, whatever they want, yesterday! It's no fun if they have to actually "work" for it.
After you know your basics and can apply them in your own way,then I will say.."All right,go have fun!" Until then,please practice and learn them for yourself.
Paul B said:
When it gets down to debates about basics, and why.
I ask them the follow:
1 + 1 = equals 2, correct?
Why?
Can you tell me how you learned this statment?
You most likely learned it by repetition, which is why I am asking you to do the technique here over and over. You also did not learn until later, how to even try to make a proof for why 1 + 1 equals 2. You take it on faith at first, then later you learn and grow into the knowledge.
Then I continue with the class.
:asian:
That is a great way of explaining it Rich
LOL! That's great! Mind if I "steal" that? On a sidenote,most people that try to debate basics,don't have the capacity to make the connection,but it's a good one!
Paul B said:
Steal away, just remember you learned this from and Engineer and a student of math
. Just give credit to the sceinces
*chuckle* Will do!
