who actually thinks you can punch someone on top of you.

[ballen0351]

So the answer to your question is a lot of people think you can punch someone on top of you....just saying

 

[Danny T]

Very interesting. I would say those represent a one in a thousand fluke shot, but it does go to show that anything can happen in a fight, even if it's not particularly likely. I agree that the second fight is unclear - those strikes from the bottom didn't look that effective - maybe the top fighter just cut too much weight and fainted from dehydration or something. However in the first fight you can see how the punch landed just right. Crazy outcome! Thanks for sharing that.

In the second fight the top fighter took several hammer fist to the side of the jaw and had his mouth guard knocked out. At 3:25 in the video he eats a backhand hammer fist to the left side of his jaw and was KOed.

I agree it is rare that one wins from striking when on bottom but... it does happen.
I've witnessed more where the fight wasn't stopped but the striking from bottom was effective enough that the top fighter was unable to continue the attack and the bottom fighter was then able to better their position.

 

[Hanzou]

This guy agrees with me

You think swinging wildly with your eyes closed is effective punching?

To answer Drop Bear's question, no you can't. That doesn't mean that you can't knock someone out if you get a lucky punch in, but nine times out of ten, if your try punching for someone's head when they're sitting on top of you, you're going to get your head caved in.

The Guard is a different story however.

 

[ballen0351]

You think swinging wildly with your eyes closed is effective punching?

Well since your the prince of if it's in YouTube it happens there it proof it can be.

To answer Drop Bear's question, no you can't

Well except it did so....

. That doesn't mean that you can't knock someone out if you get a lucky punch in, but nine times out of ten if your try punching for someone's head when they're sitting on top of you, you're going to get your head caved in.

Hmm so do you have any real evidence to back up this 90% head caving in figures or are you just talking our your butt

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Good technique relies on utilizing your body weight.

Agree! In MA, the

- top position is better than the bottom position.
- inside position is better than the outside position.

 

[Hanzou]

Well since your the prince of if it's in YouTube it happens there it proof it can be.

Yeah it can happen, just like you can get struck by lightning and hit by a bus in the same day.

Well except it did so....

So it's a lucky punch.

Hmm so do you have any real evidence to back up this 90% head caving in figures or are you just talking our your butt

Common sense would be the real evidence. Trying to punch your way out of a mount is typically a very bad idea. Why? Because you can't punch effectively from that position. A couple of flukes in the ring doesn't change that.

 

[Danny T]

You think swinging wildly with your eyes closed is effective punching?

Where did you read and Who wrote they think swinging wildly with your eyes closed is effective punching?

To answer Drop Bear's question, no you can't. That doesn't mean that you can't knock someone out if you get a lucky punch in, but nine times out of ten, if your try punching for someone's head when they're sitting on top of you, you're going to get your head caved in.

Effective - producing a result that is wanted; - having an intended effect.
Striking from being mounted Is Not the most effective percent wise. This I agree. However, IF and When it works then at that moment it is effective.
Over hand punches miss more often than connect yet in mma they are thrown often. Why, because when they do land they are effective
When mounted are there other actions that, percentage wise is more effective? Yes. Train them.
And train striking from the bottom as well. Some time that may be the only action you can do. It is a Hail Mary move but even the professional football teams all have and use Hail Mary plays.

Had he asked about 'efficient' striking; (capable of producing a desired result without wasting materials, time, or energy), that would be different.

 

[ballen0351]

Yeah it can happen, just like you can get struck by lightning and hit by a bus in the same day.



So it's a lucky punch.



Common sense would be the real evidence. Trying to punch your way out of a mount is typically a very bad idea. Why? Because you can't punch effectively from that position. A couple of flukes in the ring doesn't change that.

Lol so YouTube proof only counts when it fits your opinion on fighting. Got it.
The question was asked and the answer is a lot of people can and have punched their way out when someone was on top. Sorry it doesn't fit your preconceived notions

Ps common sense would show if you were correct 90% of fights would end with someone getting there face smashed in when your opponent gets on top. Well that's not true so your 90% was well pull out your but

 

[Hanzou]

Where did you read and Who wrote they think swinging wildly with your eyes closed is effective punching?

It was the example provided by Ballen in response to the thread title.

Effective - producing a result that is wanted; - having an intended effect.
Striking from being mounted Is Not the most effective percent wise. This I agree. However, IF and When it works then at that moment it is effective.

If someone asked you if punching from the bottom was an effective counter to someone sitting on top of them, would you honestly tell them yes, or would you tell them that there are superior options out there?

The reason they call it a "Hail Mary" is because its a desperation move. Instead of going for a desperation move, learn how get out of that position and get into a better one.

There's plenty of arts out there that can show you how. Punching should be the last thing you consider in that situation along with biting and nut grabbing.

 

[Hanzou]

Lol so YouTube proof only counts when it fits your opinion on fighting. Got it.
The question was asked and the answer is a lot of people can and have punched their way out when someone was on top.

Which simply means that its possible. It doesn't mean that its effective.

Ps common sense would show if you were correct 90% of fights would end with someone getting there face smashed in when your opponent gets on top. Well that's not true so your 90% was well pull out your but

Well, every fight I've seen in person or otherwise where someone is on top of them, someone gets their face smashed, and its rarely the guy on top. Again, there's a difference between what's possible, and what's effective.

If I throw a pencil at someone's face from 30 feet away, its possible that it can stab them in the eye and blind them. That doesn't mean that throwing pencils at people is an effective form of self defense, or an effective form of blinding people.

 

[Tez3]

Well, every fight I've seen in person or otherwise

How many fights have you seen? Over more than sixteen years I have seen thousands of MMA fights live, probably nearly as many on video and television plus countless brawls and people trying to avoid arrest, I've seen every type of strike going, efficient as well as pretty pointless and I have seen punching from the bottom in MMA fights which has been effective. Effective doesn't have to be 'getting the face smashed' effective can be discouraging the guy on top from making moves he would otherwise try, effective can be making him change his position, effective can be giving you that moment to get him off, in other word effective can be a lot of things. Of course if you are any good at BJJ you would know that, if you want devastating then no punching from the bottom isn't so good.

Here is a simple test. Assume you are a guy, when you try to make love to your love one, you can try the:

1. top position, or
2. bottom position.

Try to count the number of moves that you have to repeat in order to satisfy your love one. You will find out that "you will need more reps when you are on the bottom" than when you are on the top.

As for this...really? have you no idea how that position is supposed to work and do you really have to be that crude?

 

[Argus]

Which simply means that its possible. It doesn't mean that its effective.



Well, every fight I've seen in person or otherwise where someone is on top of them, someone gets their face smashed, and its rarely the guy on top. Again, there's a difference between what's possible, and what's effective.

If I throw a pencil at someone's face from 30 feet away, its possible that it can stab them in the eye and blind them. That doesn't mean that throwing pencils at people is an effective form of self defense, or an effective form of blinding people.

Everything happens for a reason. If you connected with a strike from the bottom, or any other position, there is a good reason as to why you were able to do so. The opening was there, you took it, and it was a valid action. If you don't connect, and suffer the consequences, the opening wasn't there, and you were just trying to make something work where it doesn't. There's not much luck or chance involved, as long as you aren't blindly swinging. Just because something is a bad idea much of the time doesn't mean it's a bad idea all of the time. Skill is recognizing the situation for what it is, and capitalizing on whatever presents itself the moment it becomes available.

P.S. I'm pretty sure I can think of some legitimate self defense applications for throwing a pencil at someone's face. Not sure why you would be doing that at 30 feet, as someone that far away doesn't really constitute a threat that you would need to engage, but in any case, it would make for a decent distraction at closer distances. I'm pretty sure that if I throw a pencil at your face, you will react to it. Granted, a larger, more visible object would be ideal, but in any case, a pencil coming at your face, should you notice it, is likely to get some response. That's something I can potentially capitalize on; disrupting the situation and putting myself in a better position by getting out of the way, accessing a weapon, or entering to strike or take control as your attention is split, is it not? Of course, that pencil may have served me better as a stabbing implement, but then maybe it would not have; perhaps the situation doesn't call for lethal force, or perhaps it does and I have a much more useful weapon that I can access. In any case, if it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. And there's a reason behind either outcome. As long as I'm not going around thinking that I can protect myself by relying solely on my pencil-throwing skills to save me, I should be OK

 

[RTKDCMB]

You think swinging wildly with your eyes closed is effective punching?

Something I have seen countless MMA fighters do on countless occasions, a common response to getting punched from the top is to flail their arms around and hope for the best whilst trying to grab.an arm.

 

[Tez3]

Something I have seen countless MMA fighters do on countless occasions, a common response to getting punched from the top is to flail their arms around and hope for the best whilst trying to grab.an arm.

I've seen fighters do that too, I've also seen them punch upwards, use 'telephone' blocks, cover their faces, try to turn over, been punched, basically the whole gamut of things you can do when being punched by the person 'sat' on you.
One thing to remember all fighters are not equal, what a good fighter can do doesn't mean a mediocre one can. when discussing something like 'can you punch upwards' the answer has to be yes you can, a good fighter can make it work if the opportunity arises, a not so good fighter either won't see the chance or can't make it work, so like many other things the answer is going to be that it depends on the fighters, there is no absolute yes it works totally or no it never works.

 

[Buka]

As little kids roughhouse, the mount position appears to be a natural position to dominate, intimidate or hurt. It appears the natural reaction from the bottom is to shove them off or strike at the face. As we age, maybe it would depend on how we're taught to deal with it?

Punching to the face from bottom ain't easy. Shrimping ain't easy, either. Nor is umpa at times. Can't say I known anything easy in a fight. Bleeding, maybe.

 

[ballen0351]

Which simply means that its possible. It doesn't mean that its effective.

Except it was effective so..........

Well, every fight I've seen in person or otherwise where someone is on top of them, someone gets their face smashed, and its rarely the guy on top. Again, there's a difference between what's possible, and what's effective.

And in this case striking from the bottom is both possible and effective. Is it the most effective technique to use no but can it work absolutely

If I throw a pencil at someone's face from 30 feet away, its possible that it can stab them in the eye and blind them. That doesn't mean that throwing pencils at people is an effective form of self defense, or an effective form of blinding people.

And throwing pencils from 30 feet is no comparison to striking from the bottom.

 

[Danny T]

It was the example provided by Ballen in response to the thread title.

A still picture of a straight punch up the center is what you refer to as "swinging wildly with your eyes closed"?

If someone asked you if punching from the bottom was an effective counter to someone sitting on top of them, would you honestly tell them yes, or would you tell them that there are superior options out there?

I have all ready stated this, twice.

The reason they call it a "Hail Mary" is because its a desperation move. Instead of going for a desperation move, learn how get out of that position and get into a better one.

There's plenty of arts out there that can show you how.

And when you are in a situation where the person on bottom has the training but is unable to???
Don't attempt anything else. For certain don't attempt a move out of desperation.

 

[ballen0351]

The reason they call it a "Hail Mary" is because its a desperation move. Instead of going for a desperation move,.

A Hail Mary is far from a desperation move. Teams practice it because it works. It is very effective when your opponent isnt ready. For example you believe it could NEVER work so you wouldnt be expecting it, wont train to defend it, and wont be ready for it then all of a sudden bam your lights get turned off

 

[Hanzou]

A still picture of a straight punch up the center is what you refer to as "swinging wildly with your eyes closed"?

Watch the vid. That's exactly what he was doing when he got the knock out punch.

And when you are in a situation where the person on bottom has the training but is unable to???
Don't attempt anything else. For certain don't attempt a move out of desperation.

I never said don't attempt anything else. I said don't rely on desperation tactics like trying to punch someone in the head who is sitting on your chest. Why shouldn't you rely on such tactics? Because they're not effective.

 

[ballen0351]

Why should you rely on such tactics? Because they're not effective.

Except when they are effective right?