Where is "Heaven" and "Hell"?

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Spirituality in the Arts' started by Bob Hubbard, Aug 19, 2010.

  1. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    Recent events have me pondering things of this nature as of late.

    At my uncles funeral, a song was sung about God "descending" from Heaven. I recall hearing many comments about descending into Hell.

    When we believed the world was flat placing such places 'above' and 'below' made sense, but, to our current science, such a placement seems an imposibility. If I go 'below', I hit magma, and eventually pop out the other side of the planet. Might be a short cut to decent sushi, but a place of eternal damnation is unlikely. Of the same vein is the idea that "Heaven" is above. Above me are clouds, then the moon, then deep space, and eventually yet another star system, and so on. Unless God descends in a UFO riding in from beyond the edges of the universe, such a placement is also unlikely.

    So if up and down are out, what about sideways? Watching numerous ghost hunter shows, many comments are made of spirits caught 'between worlds'. 'Portals to other worlds' are often cited when one discusses places of strange occurrence such as the Bermuda Triangle.

    So, what if places such as "Heaven" and "Hell" are not really up or down, but these 'alternate worlds' or other dimensions? What if what we call ghosts and demons are beings of energy, caught in the 'doorway' as it were?

    What if the idea of the laws of conservation of energy, and all of the mythos of 'spirits' are somehow connected?
     
  2. girlbug2

    girlbug2 Master of Arts

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    You would not be alone in supposing that Heaven and Hell are other dimensions, accessible by "doorways" of sorts. I do not recall where I heard those ideas before, but then again I have read Science Fiction for many years :).

    Although, considering that Heaven is supposed to be a particular place where God resides, and not just a metaphorical concept, there are actually infinte star systems and planets in the universe where Heaven could in theory be located. So the idea of Heaven being somewhere "upward" is plausible.
     
  3. 72ronin

    72ronin Purple Belt

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    How about this,

    God is nature, nature is the universe/infinate and heaven is the place/s where a balance has been found to support life to the point of self realisation, which in turn realises nature and then universe/infinate and calls this balance supporting life god.

    Interestingly, if god (being nature) was rejected, then the balance would be broken - therefore leading to an eventual demise of the existance of said being, perhaps the idea of hell...

    what do you think?
     
  4. Empty Hands

    Empty Hands Senior Master

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    Heaven and Hell are located in the human mind, where they were slowly invented over the centuries.
     
  5. 72ronin

    72ronin Purple Belt

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    Absolutely, and mankinds paranoia of death and the need to control has created the myth of afterlfe, when in fact he simply returns to the energies which created the balance in the first place, this is the basis for afterlife/re-incarnation for the religions of the world. Although they seem to have forgotten this basic lol.
     
  6. stickarts

    stickarts Senior Master

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    If there are such places, I believe they are within us.
     
  7. derobec

    derobec Orange Belt

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    The problem though is that once we descend into the hell which is lurking in our minds we find that we actually start to create a real-life version at every turn in our day to day life.

    Like attracts like in this instance.

    Best Wishes,
    William
     
  8. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    You ask several questions. I don't have any answers, but I can add my thoughts.

    First, on the issue of 'up' generally being the direction of heaven and 'down' generally being the direction of hell. I would suppose that early man would have noted that when things die, they fall down. Placed in the earth, they decompose. The sky appears clean and beautiful and appears to go on forever. Just a thought.

    As to the physicality of regions described as heaven, hell, or just some sort of afterlife; I have no idea, even though my religion clearly teaches of such places. I find it fascinating that some current theories on the nature of the universe proposes a multiverse in which there is a form of reality for every potential reality; in other words, if it can happen, it does happen - somewhere. In an infinite number of universes, some must contain heaven or hell or both, as well as comic-book superheroes and Creators as described by man's religions. Well, just a thought.

    What's more interesting to me as a mind game is this concept of space-time existing as membranes that slap against each other from time to time, exchanging matter and energy, sometimes causing events that we would know as "The Big Bang" and sometimes causing leakage from one universe into the next. Many of us have experienced the feeling that we woke up one day in a world that was 99.999% like the one we went to sleep in, but with certain things different. Like something we clearly remembered happening, which our friends and family insist NEVER happened. Maybe just one little inconsequential thing, but we're sure we remember it, and nobody else does. Sometimes I wonder if we 'wander' from universe to universe accidentally from time to time, maybe when these 'branes' slap together. Surely it would be possible in a huge exchange for 'God' to come to earth, or a 'Savior' from a universe where there are such beings.

    Just playing mind games here. I'm of no firm opinion.
     
  9. Jade Tigress

    Jade Tigress RAWR

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    I believe heaven and hell exist in another dimension. Short and sweet but my .02.
     
  10. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Up there and down there...now it is up to you to figure out which is which and who to believe George Bernard Shaw or Dante
     
  11. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    We are all of us in the gutter, some of us looking at the stars - Oscar Wilde

    You are a child of earth and starry heaven - Wiccan Blessing for a Newborn

    Non Servium - Lucifer, to God on the Occasion of being Cast Out of Heaven

    Better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven - John Milton

    Remember, man, that thou art dust. From dust thou came, and unto dust thou shalt return - Catholic liturgy for Ash Wednesday.
     
  12. Omar B

    Omar B Senior Master

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    They exist in the same place Middle Earth does, books and imagination.
     
  13. girlbug2

    girlbug2 Master of Arts

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    Meanwhile, you're avatar is looking kinda messianic there, Omar.
     
  14. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    He's got those 3D eyes that follow you around the room, too. Like Jesus or Elvis. Creepy!
     
  15. Empty Hands

    Empty Hands Senior Master

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    Wait a minute, has anyone ever seen Omar, Jesus and Elvis all together in the same place?

    Oh my God.

    IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!
     
  16. Nomad

    Nomad Master Black Belt

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    Both exist right here on Earth.

    It's all too easy to find examples that Dante would be proud of in our fellow human beings, war-torn countries, and so on.

    Any every once in a while, you come across someplace or something (a sunset, a totally peaceful moment, looking into your infant's eyes, etc) that is so absolutely perfect that it takes the breath away.

    The ones with little dudes in red suits and horns, or of winged babies playing harps and shooting arrows? Simply in the collective imagination, I believe.

    I prefer to act in ways that will make my world and the world of those around me a better place simply because it will, rather than for any reward/punishment system that's waiting for me after I'm dead.
     
  17. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    Which is fine. Others believe in their literal existence. The key word is 'belief'.

    With all due respect, please don't characterize believers as folk living in fear of an angry God and doing the 'right thing' because they're terrified of Hell. It's simply not true.
     
  18. Nomad

    Nomad Master Black Belt

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    Which is why I was careful to put the word in there in the first place.

    This was not my intent, although there are definitely people on the extremes of faith who do just that. It was not intended as a general condemnation of belief or of religion, and if it was read as such, I do apologize. I do not want to mock anyone for their beliefs, and meant this simply to convey my motivation. Similarly, I get very frustrated and offended by people who necessarily equate following an (often specific) religion with possessing morality.
     
  19. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    I'm hip, that's why I was careful in my response to you. It's all good.
     
  20. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    I think part of our various belief systems come from primitive needs to explain things. You'd find a partially buried corpse in a state of decay and think something bad had happened, and come up with evil spirits living 'below' who inflict pain and agony. You'd see lightning and think the 'gods' were showing their anger, or notice that things like the sun would rise and fall consistently and think someone smart was behind it all. Over eons, like anything else, gods and demons were consolidated and downsized until you get monotheistic religions with 1 key god and 1 key 'devil', and as customs and beliefs mix, hades splits into heaven and hell, the departed no longer party in a pasture but walk with god in his astral estate, and somewhere somehow someone makes spaghetti fly. ;)

    All of our varied belief systems however share 1 key component, without which they fall apart into illogical chaos: Belief. There is no proof Jesus existed. None. Yet 2.2B people believe. I've never ever seen a person with more than 2 arms, yet 1.2B Hindus have a regiment's worth of gods with 4 or more. They "Believe". Some believe that "God" has hand picked his favored, and no matter what they will be 'saved'. Others believe that ones acts and actions in this life determine their place in the next. Some believe in a system of plusses and minuses that determine if one returns as a person or a bug. Again, it's all 'belief'. No one's ever returned with Gods black book. Some claim to have been dropped off by aliens after some heavy drinking and strange probing, but no one believes them. ;)

    Some of us believe aliens are the gods our ancestors saw. Some of us believe they are nuts. It's all belief. ;)

    Me, I believe there's something out there beyond what I know...but I don't know what it is. ;)123
     

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