When the kata is applied to self defense

[oftheherd1]

Frankly, I'm pissed. No idea why - I think it's something @Buka said.

I'm glad to hear that. I was afraid it might have been something that made enough sense that everyone could relate to.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

At it's most fundamental it started to address my right left bias, I would always push of my right foot and lead with my left, always turn to my left if I was pulling, so my dominant hand was the puller,, always turn to my right if I was going 180' and lots of others, I've stood there trying to make my body move right foot first, whilst it just moved my left or even refused to move at all, as it was so counter intuitive

Great, now I need to pay attention to that and see if I have a bias. You’re nothin’ but trouble.

Seriously, I can see where drills like kata would do that, especially if you repeat movements at roughly equal measures on both sides.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yes, but It's even more simple than that.

Training is training. It's not the martial art it's training to be able to do the martial art.

Training is variable, every instructor decides for himself which and how much of each exercise to do.

Shotokan isn't a guy with a gun to an instructors family. It's not a list of training methods that you must follow exactly to.get your black belt. It's a bunch of principles that should help you beat up an assailant. You make your body and mind able to embrace and exploit those principles the best you can as an individual and as an instructor you help others do the same the best way you know how.

That’s what I was getting at. The same art can be trained quite differently between two instructors. There is a point where we have to ask, “If nearly everyone trains art X the same way, has that training approach become a de facto part of the art?”

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I hit a golf ball through a wall once.


Ok, it was a greenhouse wall, but it still counts...

Does a hedge count? I’ve done that a few times.

 

[Hanzou]

You as the the poster said might want to look into why he opposed it as such before jumping fully on that wagon .......and has anyone ever said that is you wanna be a fighter you must restrict sparring ??? ..............ummmmm your twisting what was said to suit your needs again me thinks

I'm still waiting for you to provide an objective source that verifies O Sensei's abilities.

I guess the wait will continue....

 

[now disabled]

I'm still waiting for you to provide an objective source that verifies O Sensei's abilities.

I guess the wait will continue....

I did lol.................the clue was Asahi .....

 

[now disabled]

and per form I ask a question which does pertain to your original post/thread theme and you edit that out lol ....was it to compicated for you lol?

 

[now disabled]

I'm still waiting for you to provide an objective source that verifies O Sensei's abilities.

I guess the wait will continue....

Would you prefer more clues to aid you in finding things .....it is actually time you sir. started to do some proper research instead of making claims about people based on vids made (apart from one) than werre in his latter years ...in fact one that is available was filmed in the year he passed when he was suffering from the illness that eventually killed him (and yes as you seem to like pics etc there is a death portrait of him) ....if you require other clues I will give them to you and I am not in any way misleading in the clues I am giving you ....merely making you go look so YOU sir can do the research instead of saying it all legend and myth

 

[now disabled]

Does a hedge count? I’ve done that a few times.

yup lol ......what form did ya use to get it out the hedge lol........and how much of the hedge remained lol

 

[now disabled]

That’s what I was getting at. The same art can be trained quite differently between two instructors. There is a point where we have to ask, “If nearly everyone trains art X the same way, has that training approach become a de facto part of the art?”

excellent point ....really excellent as again I will say studying under different Instructors of the same art is always beneficial as then you get different takes on the same basic "idea"

 

[now disabled]

Does a hedge count? I’ve done that a few times.

I really should have clicked informative lol ......................and noted that down as if anyone plays you at golf ....to make very sure that no hedges are around as they will be no obstacle or hazard ......you having mastered the form for getting out of same lol.................

 

[Buka]

Nope. However, at the end you can hear his peers demanding that he get up and not give up. This guy just fought through 40 guys full contact and they're demanding that he get off his *** and stand up. That's how those crazy SOBs develop their fighting spirit.

Yeah, that's a crew I'm not messing with....

That's proper Karate training in my opinion.

 

[oftheherd1]

That's proper Karate training in my opinion.

Back when TKD training was TKD training )), there was nothing for free. But we weren't quite that brutal with each other, just that there were no accidents, only poor TKD which we were expected to improve.

Of course there weren't as many out of work lawyers back then either.

 

[now disabled]

Back when TKD training was TKD training )), there was nothing for free. But we weren't quite that brutal with each other, just that there were no accidents, only poor TKD which we were expected to improve.

Of course there weren't as many out of work lawyers back then either.

Or folks with vid cams or cell phones ready to post it on you tube ...

 

[oftheherd1]

Does a hedge count? I’ve done that a few times.

Let's get this thread back on track. Are you asserting that as an opinion or fact?

I only played one game in my whole life so I never attained the expertise you and PDG have. I tried both bowling and golf. When I bowled I got golfing scores and when I golfed I got bowling scores. I reluctantly gave up both.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Let's get this thread back on track. Are you asserting that as an opinion or fact?

I only played one game in my whole life so I never attained the expertise you and PDG have. I tried both bowling and golf. When I bowled I got golfing scores and when I golfed I got bowling scores. I reluctantly gave up both.

I always tell people I tried both once. I got a 300 bowling and a 50 golfing. But it's possible I may have mixed up which was which...

 

[now disabled]

@Hanzou

Again This pertains to the original post you made :-

You keep saying Kata used extensively etc is basically bad and doesn't produce fighters (think that all been covered) .... You say that in some Kata there are hidden things and you don't believe that as such .... and that Kata should be stripped from TMA (I am using your definition of TMA not mine and even then mine is only JTMA as I know very little about others - not to my credit I may add- ) so I am going to ask you this again

Shikko is contained in many JTMA (again your def of TMA) and is a form and a drill and can be made into a longer kata if desired and there is a way to properly get into and out of said ....so do you thin it nonsense that Shikko is still used or practiced and do you or can you see what one it was originally? and two why it is still used and lastly what the hidden bit is about said ?


Please guys who actually know don't jump in lol.......I am trying to see if @Hanzou can actually justify what he has alluded to all thru and as it pertains to one of my arts (and I can only answer for that art) I would be interested to get his take as it is specific not wide ranging ....

 

[Steve]

Would you prefer more clues to aid you in finding things .....it is actually time you sir. started to do some proper research instead of making claims about people based on vids made (apart from one) than werre in his latter years ...in fact one that is available was filmed in the year he passed when he was suffering from the illness that eventually killed him (and yes as you seem to like pics etc there is a death portrait of him) ....if you require other clues I will give them to you and I am not in any way misleading in the clues I am giving you ....merely making you go look so YOU sir can do the research instead of saying it all legend and myth

this isn't a research forum. It's a discussion forum. If you have information to share, dont be coy about it. Just share it. Or at least post a link to it.

 

[Steve]

That’s what I was getting at. The same art can be trained quite differently between two instructors. There is a point where we have to ask, “If nearly everyone trains art X the same way, has that training approach become a de facto part of the art?”

excellent point ....really excellent as again I will say studying under different Instructors of the same art is always beneficial as then you get different takes on the same basic "idea"

I think you guys might be missing the forest for the trees. While different instructors do make a big difference, that doesn't get to training structue, application and whether kata makes fighters better at fighting.

 

[Hanzou]

@Hanzou

Again This pertains to the original post you made :-

You keep saying Kata used extensively etc is basically bad and doesn't produce fighters (think that all been covered) .... You say that in some Kata there are hidden things and you don't believe that as such .... and that Kata should be stripped from TMA (I am using your definition of TMA not mine and even then mine is only JTMA as I know very little about others - not to my credit I may add- ) so I am going to ask you this again

Shikko is contained in many JTMA (again your def of TMA) and is a form and a drill and can be made into a longer kata if desired and there is a way to properly get into and out of said ....so do you thin it nonsense that Shikko is still used or practiced and do you or can you see what one it was originally? and two why it is still used and lastly what the hidden bit is about said ?

What? I'm not understanding what you're asking here.

Are you talking about this;

What about it?