When the kata is applied to self defense

[O'Malley]

And there were various "Merikan" and other fighting exhibitions in Japan and China in this period and even in the 20s.

Again, where was Ueshiba?

Minding his own business.

Morihei Ueshiba - Wikipedia

 

[Hanzou]

Studying Daito ryu ....what part of that are you not getting ...

Until 1922. Again, plenty of public exhibition matches happening in this time frame.

 

[now disabled]

are we even aware of any person ever saying "hey, I beat Ueshiba"?

Nope there seems to be a lack of that kind of thing ....and I would think that there just might be lol ............I agree with you and it is well well documented about who he beat and who challenged him and as you say none seem to have got the better of him and most after he dumped him on their rears etc seemed to want him to teach them lol.................but Hanzou doesn't like that sort of thing as he only accepts vids and the rest to back things up or articles he wants to read

 

[Hanzou]

Nope there seems to be a lack of that kind of thing ....and I would think that there just might be lol ............I agree with you and it is well well documented about who he beat and who challenged him and as you say none seem to have got the better of him and most after he dumped him on their rears etc seemed to want him to teach them lol.................but Hanzou doesn't like that sort of thing as he only accepts vids and the rest to back things up or articles he wants to read

You mean I don't like stories and beliefs backed by nothing more than anecdotal evidence?

Absolutely.

 

[now disabled]

Until 1922. Again, plenty of public exhibition matches happening in this time frame.

Jeez why would or did he need to go looking for fights ....they came to him .... actually I'd love to see you on a mat with either an Iwama style or Yoshinkan style Aikidoka and see just how you'd cope as you have zero understanding of Aikido and I truly mean that zero

and I am still awaiting your answer to the shikko question ...but I guess you only answer things that you want to lol

 

[now disabled]

You mean I don't like stories and beliefs backed by nothing more than anecdotal evidence?

Absolutely.

No you are and have zero respect or understanding and it so apparent in what you say and as I said I'd love to see you on a mat with an Aikidoka of the hard styles or Daito-ryu lol

 

[O'Malley]

I'm talking about this portion:



Yeah, it's clear that he looks down on such styles.

Looks down on such people. In none of those portions he's talking about martial arts styles.

Well when there's no one there to corroborate the stories besides Ueshiba himself or someone who eventually became his disciple, how can we ever determine if he ever lost? We also can't determine if he actually ever won. The evidence surrounding him and the art that he created really doesn't support any of the claims.

Morihei Ueshiba was the most famous martial artist in Japan in this period. Numerous martial arts experts flocked to hi, became his students and never went back to their previous styles again. If you dismiss every single testimony of any person that actually saw or met him (and all those testimonies by A LOT of martial arts EXPERTS say that he was the real deal), how do you explain this?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

BTW, this article intrigued me:

Are you an unwitting participant in the demise of Aikido? by Stanley Pranin – Aikido Journal

Basically it discusses that Aikido is declining globally, and it lists a variety of reasons why. In the process, it disparages popular fighting arts as "flashy" and laughingly paints exponents of those arts as simplistic brutes who just want to destroy people. All the while, the author gushes over O' Sensei as if he was some sort of almighty deity and is seemingly confused as to why his disciples are somehow unable to transfer his "magic" to other people. There are even commentators in that article saying that O'Sensei was the pinnacle of the art and no one can match it.

I find this sort of thing disturbing on multiple levels. IMO, the reasons for Aikido's decline is very obvious and quite clear. People want results, not promises. You can say all the crap you want about O'Sensei's feats of magic, but if Aikido isn't teaching you how to stop a takedown or a punch in the face, none of that matters.

Amazingly people like the author are purposely avoiding those reasons because he has a cult mentality.

It’s an odd thing, because Pranin didn’t consistently show that blindness to those factors. I wish I’d had a chance to have a more in-depth discussion with him.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You are aware that The author is now dead ?

I love how you slag of an art but when you are called on something you refuse to answer lol ....but hey ho you keep it up

Dead or not, Pranin does seem to have had a blind spot in this area.

 

[now disabled]

Looks down on such people. In none of those portions he's talking about martial arts styles.






Morihei Ueshiba was the most famous martial artist in Japan in this period. Numerous martial arts experts flocked to hi, became his students and never went back to their previous styles again. If you dismiss every single testimony of any person that actually saw or met him (and all those testimonies by A LOT of martial arts EXPERTS say that he was the real deal), how do you explain this?

Not all became his disciples but they respected him and did not come back for seconds lol

Bro he is basing things on what he wants to see and read and on the vids of Ueshiba Morihei in later life which by the time they were made in his 70's or almost months before he died then it gives a false sense ....the only early tapes of him are him when he was at the Asahi newspaper

As you said earlier he is not grasping that the Aikido seen today is not the Aikido that Ueshiba Morihei taught originally (Iwama and Yoshinkan are probably the closest) but that of his son and there are big reasons for that as you will know

 

[now disabled]

Dead or not, Pranin does seem to have had a blind spot in this area.

He got very heavy into Saito and also researching the early stuff but just my opinion and there were conflicts between Saito and the Aikikai after Ueshiba Morihei died eventually leading to as you will know Saito jnr setting up on his own

 

[Hanzou]

Looks down on such people. In none of those portions he's talking about martial arts styles.

He looks down on young people seeking martial knowledge? He calls them arrogant and lacking a moral compass? That's just as bad, if not worse.

Morihei Ueshiba was the most famous martial artist in Japan in this period. Numerous martial arts experts flocked to hi, became his students and never went back to their previous styles again. If you dismiss every single testimony of any person that actually saw or met him (and all those testimonies by A LOT of martial arts EXPERTS say that he was the real deal), how do you explain this?

Unfortunately we have no choice but to. You're dealing with highly biased sources who have a personal stake in making their old master look good.

 

[Hanzou]

No you are and have zero respect or understanding and it so apparent in what you say and as I said I'd love to see you on a mat with an Aikidoka of the hard styles or Daito-ryu lol

What would I have to gain from that pointless exercise?

 

[now disabled]

What would I have to gain from that pointless exercise?

Understanding possibly and if you tape it then you can show that what you say is all true

 

[Hanzou]

Understanding possibly and if you tape it then you can show that what you say is all true

You don't need a tape of me taking down an Aikidoka using wrestling/grappling to show what I say is true. Taped evidence already exists.

 

[now disabled]

He looks down on young people seeking martial knowledge? He calls them arrogant and lacking a moral compass? That's just as bad, if not worse.



Unfortunately we have no choice but to. You're dealing with highly biased sources who have a personal stake in making their old master look good.

They are not biased sources at all ....it you that is biased and seem to lack the understanding and also you only cherry pick what you want to see

 

[Hanzou]

They are not biased sources at all ....it you that is biased and seem to lack the understanding and also you only cherry pick what you want to see

A biased source is someone who is prejudicial. You don't get more prejudicial than a devoted disciple of a leader.

 

[O'Malley]

He looks down on young people seeking martial knowledge? He calls them arrogant and lacking a moral compass? That's just as bad, if not worse.

I'm not interested in discussing Pranin's point of view. I just rectified what I saw as a misinterpretation of what was written.

Unfortunately we have no choice but to. You're dealing with highly biased sources who have a personal stake in making their old master look good.

For the Xth time, not all the people who praised Ueshiba were his disciples:

or accounts by people from other arts who did not become his students but said he was the greatest, from the top of my head J. Kano, Yasuhiro Konishi, Hideo Sonobe, Haga Junichi.

And, again, how do you explain the fact that high ranked experts from other styles threw everything away just to study his martial art and never went back?

I don't know whether you are doing it on purpose or if you have reading comprehension problems (I don't mean it in a derogatory way, English is not my mother language either) but could you please make some efforts to stop ignoring half of the posts you reply to by throwing generalized statements? That's not an honest way of discussing a topic and, frankly, it's annoying.

 

[now disabled]

A biased source is someone who is prejudicial. You don't get more prejudicial than a devoted disciple of a leader.

Not necessarily so

And are you saying you are not biased


How much Aikido have you actually done that you can form these opinions?

 

[now disabled]

You don't need a tape of me taking down an Aikidoka using wrestling/grappling to show what I say is true. Taped evidence already exists.

Lol i tell you what then next time I am stateside you arrange mat time and you can perform your amazing skills on me ok lol ....no challenge I would just like to see these super skills lol