When recreational drugs are legal...

[Jenna]

I think it is a naive question maybe and but can someone advise me on why artificial (maybe potentially harmful) highs are sought in the first place?? For anyone that does or had done any kind of illicit drug is it ok to ask what made you start? Thank you.

 

[pgsmith]

Sure I thought we were discussing marijuana but OK beer. . Anything really that's sole purpose is to alter your mind. I drank when I was younger because I was young and thought I was supposed to I was a marine and all other marines drank so I did too. I never really like the taste or feeling and I haven't drank in a long time. Even when I was under cover at bars I buy beer to blend in hold it for a while walk off to the bathroom pour it out go buy another. Or set it down somewhere walk away and buy another so people thought I was drinking but I wasn't

That's a good thought, but unless you never eat chocolate or drink coffee or other caffeinated beverages, you too are partaking of mind altering drugs. Caffeine is the most widely used psychoactive drug in the world. I know many people that don't like drinking because of the reasons you state. Personally, I hate running and the way it makes me feel. I can't imagine why anyone would ever want to feel like that. I don't begrudge the runners their desire to do so though.

 

[Makalakumu]

I think it is a naive question maybe and but can someone advise me on why artificial (maybe potentially harmful) highs are sought in the first place?? For anyone that does or had done any kind of illicit drug is it ok to ask what made you start? Thank you.

Here's a little reading if you are interested in a long answer to this question.

http://www.amazon.com/Intoxication-Universal-Drive-Mind-Altering-Substances/dp/1594770697

A scientific and cultural exploration of the pursuit of altered states of consciousness in both humans and animals

• Contains myriad studies and examples from the author's 20 years of research

• By the foremost authority on the social and psychological effects of drug use

History shows that people have always used intoxicants. In every age, in every part of the world, people have pursued intoxication with plants, alcohol, and other mind-altering substances. In fact, this behavior has so much force and persistence that it functions much like our drives for food, sleep, and sex. This "fourth drive," says psychopharmacologist Ronald K. Siegel, is a natural part of our biology, creating the irrepressible demand for intoxicating substances.

In Intoxication Siegel draws upon his 20 years of groundbreaking research to provide countless examples of the intoxication urge in humans, animals, and even insects. The detailed observations of his so-called psychonauts--study participants trained to explicitly describe their drug experiences--as well as numerous studies with animals have helped him to identify the behavior patterns induced by different intoxicants. Presenting his conclusions on the biological as well as cultural reasons for the pursuit of intoxication and showing that personality and guidance often define the outcome of a drug experience, Siegel offers a broad understanding of the intoxication phenomenon as well as recommendations for curbing the negative aspects of drug use in Western culture by designing safe intoxicants.

After reading this book, I became convinced that all of these laws amounted to a tyranny over the mind. We need to exercise liberty when it comes to our consciousness in order to discover the best way to scratch these natural itches. I'm drinking coffee right now, for example. It's a product of the free market in psychoactive substances.

 

[Tgace]

By and large though, coffee, alcohol, and yes..even weed. Wont drive you into the downward spiral ("chasing the dragon") and HARD physical addiction that drugs like Heroin/Opium will. You WILL get addicted and you will drop everything in your life from your family to your children to get the next fix and many times you will OD. The cost on society drugs like THAT will impose is not something I will ever embrace the legalization of. Marijuana? Eh..I wont be protesting in the streets if it becomes legal.

 

[elder999]

By and large though, coffee, alcohol, and yes..even weed. Wont drive you into the downward spiral ("chasing the dragon") and HARD physical addiction that drugs like Heroin/Opium will. You WILL get addicted and you will drop everything in your life from your family to your children to get the next fix and many times you will OD. The cost on society drugs like THAT will impose is not something I will ever embrace the legalization of. Marijuana? Eh..I wont be protesting in the streets if it becomes legal.

On the other hand, there are functional heroin addicts, and likely functional addicts that are addicted to other drugs as well. I think it boils down to availability of supply, and lifestyle. Ray Charles was addicted to heroin for the better part of 25 years, during which time he produced some of his biggest hits-while he was arrested several times for possession, he never had to rob anyone to support his habit.....except, of course, his family of his time with them....

 

[Tgace]

On the other hand, there are functional heroin addicts, and likely functional addicts that are addicted to other drugs as well. I think it boils down to availability of supply, and lifestyle. Ray Charles was addicted to heroin for the better part of 25 years, during which time he produced some of his biggest hits-while he was arrested several times for possession, he never had to rob anyone to support his habit.....except, of course, his family of his time with them....

Of course he never had to rob anybody....he had cash. If we are going to debate heroin legalization based on Ray Charles.....I give you a big LOL!

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[elder999]

Of course he never had to rob anybody....he had cash. If we are going to debate heroin legalization based on Ray Charles.....I give you a big LOL!

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No, I don't have a dog in the legalization hunt one way or the other-however, it does contradict:

Wont drive you into the downward spiral ("chasing the dragon") and HARD physical addiction that drugs like Heroin/Opium will. You WILL get addicted and you will drop everything in your life from your family to your children to get the next fix and many times you will OD.

Many others in his situation did have cash, didn't rob anyone, and did wind up pretty dead as a result of their addictions.

If heroin were legal, though, less people would be robbing to get it, I'd wager.......

 

[ballen0351]

That's a good thought, but unless you never eat chocolate or drink coffee or other caffeinated beverages, you too are partaking of mind altering drugs. Caffeine is the most widely used psychoactive drug in the world. I know many people that don't like drinking because of the reasons you state. Personally, I hate running and the way it makes me feel. I can't imagine why anyone would ever want to feel like that. I don't begrudge the runners their desire to do so though.

I figured the coffee or caffeine would come up and I don't drink coffee or soda either the most caffeine I drink comes from tea and I usually water my tea WAY down like 1 tea bag per gallon of water. I mainly drink water or fruit juice or Gatorade that's pretty much it and no chocolate either.
I will say comparing caffeine to THC is like comparing THC to cocaine

 

[ballen0351]

If heroin were legal, though, less people would be robbing to get it, I'd wager.......

What makes you think that?

 

[Tez3]

Oh, I tried it. A LOT. When I was young I tried a lot of things.

And then I grew up and having a good job and a great girlfriend became a higher priority.

But every once in awhile I miss marijuana.

Here's a good example of when: at concerts. Sure, I can have $14 beers instead — but then I end up missing a good part of the show going to the restroom, using the restroom, returning to my seat.

And somebody in the group has to abstain completely.

I tried a lot of things and watched friends slide down into the pit of addiction to some of the things I tried. Apparently I am not the type who easily become addicted. Based on those observations and watching how various indulgences changed people I know:

I can back continued efforts against cocaine, crack, LDS/acid, methamphetamines, prescription drugs, magic mushrooms. In a truly free society, we should leave it up to the individual once they are of an age of being responsible for themselves. There are no truly free societies nor any place to establish one.

I don't need marijuana, nor alcohol. But I do enjoy being under the influence of either one of those drugs on an occasional basis. I wouldn't make either a lifestyle.

And I don't see how, if it were permitted, me growing a couple of plants in my backyard would affect anyone else on the planet or why it should be anyone else's business.

Some people don't understand why I like to eat hot peppers — and that's fine. But I don't appreciate people grouping together and deciding to jail me for what I can produce and consume in the privacy of my own home.

It is a bit scary to see how unreasonable people can get in defense of their views when their view includes supporting the enforcement of their preference over my right to the pursuit of happiness that in no direct way infringes on their freedoms — and with the full weight of the law behind them.

And sad.

When you say someone has to abstain completly when it's alcohol does that mean you and/or your friends drive vehicles while under the influence of marijuana?

 

[Tgace]

http://www.michaelshouse.com/heroin-addiction/heroin-addiction-statistics/

After first time use, it takes only a few days of regular injection and a few weeks of regular smoking to develop a physical addiction to the drug. Once heroin addiction is a factor, the average addict will spend about $150 to $200 a day to maintain their habit while many will spend even more. In less than a year, few can be described as “functional” heroin addicts, that is, people who have a steady heroin addiction but still hold down a job or stay in school while paying rent and keeping up with other responsibilities. Instead, most heroin addicts are solely focused on maintaining their addiction and little else after the first year.

There are over 1.2 million “occasional” heroin users in the United States and over 200,000 people who could be classified as addicted to the drug.

The average heroin addiction ingests between 150mg and 250mg of the drug per day.

Heroin overdoses have caused more deaths than traffic accidents in the past several years.

There are believed to be at least 700,000 people in the United States who need heroin addiction treatment but are not receiving it.

According to a report from the United States Department of Health and Human Services, from the years spanning 1992 -2002, the number of people injecting heroin declined, but the percentage of individuals smoking the drug increased by over 12%.

IN 2002 a study by the National Survey on Drug Use and Health found that 53% of past year users of heroin had a dependence on the drug.

 

[Tgace]

If I were to intentionally make myself drunk every day for the next week, I wont become an alcoholic.

If I were to take hits of Heroin every day for the next week I will be physically addicted to it. Thats a big difference when discussing what sorts of drugs should should be legal.

 

[ballen0351]

So far in my time as a police officer I've seen 2 police officers get hooked on heroin loose their families jobs houses. One was a friend of mine we went to the police academy together. They both got hooked the same way. They got hurt on the job nothing too bad but they were given oxycontin for a few months. They both got hooked on the oxy. They started buying it on the street and then discovered heroin was cheaper then pills. I'm happy to report after 8 years of being hooked my friend is finally clean and getting his life back. The other officer last I hear she was a prostitute in Baltimore.
I've also met 2 lawyers and a doc they were hooked and no longer worked in their professions any longer. Both started with prescription drugs. I put a lot of blame on drug use going up on how easy it is to get a pain killer prescription from a doc. Seems every time I twist an ankle or cut myself on something they offer me a supply of some prescription.

 

[billc]

I can't help with that one Jenna, never started, thankfully. I saw too many people in high school set back by drug use, and too many adults waste their lives using drugs and alcohol, legal or not. What are your thoughts?

 

[Carol]

Guess I'm too much of a control freak to want to take a mind altering substance. I like to be in total control just in case something happens I want to be ready to protect my wife and kids. I do see your point but the hiking and bison sound much better to me then a pot brownie

Mmm...sounds much better to me as well.

That's why I don't allow MJ users in my cabin, if ya catch my drift.


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[Tgace]

So far in my time as a police officer I've seen 2 police officers get hooked on heroin loose their families jobs houses. One was a friend of mine we went to the police academy together. They both got hooked the same way. They got hurt on the job nothing too bad but they were given oxycontin for a few months. They both got hooked on the oxy. They started buying it on the street and then discovered heroin was cheaper then pills. I'm happy to report after 8 years of being hooked my friend is finally clean and getting his life back. The other officer last I hear she was a prostitute in Baltimore.
I've also met 2 lawyers and a doc they were hooked and no longer worked in their professions any longer. Both started with prescription drugs. I put a lot of blame on drug use going up on how easy it is to get a pain killer prescription from a doc. Seems every time I twist an ankle or cut myself on something they offer me a supply of some prescription.

Yuuuup...the synthetic opioid is the gateway to straight heroin. When one 80mg pill costs $80+ and you are physically addicted, it becomes a matter of simple math.

I agree with what Steve said upthread, prescription pills are a huge problem. The heroin dealers best friend has become the doctor....

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[pgsmith]

If I were to intentionally make myself drunk every day for the next week, I wont become an alcoholic.

And you are basing this upon what exactly, just your opinion? I know a couple of people that became alcoholics exactly that way.

There are a great many people that abuse drugs, both legal and illegal. There are also a great many people addicted to various substances and actions, both legal and illegal. I'm sure that will continue no matter what is or isn't illegal.

However, to say "ooooo it's bad so it shouldn't be legal!" does not address the very real and current issues of prison overcrowding, ever escalating drug smuggler violence, and the ever increasing costs of dealing with these issues. In all of the rhetoric going back and forth, nobody has bothered to make a suggestion as to how we should deal with these problems that are very quickly going to get too large to handle if something isn't done soon. My solution was to legalize recreational drugs, and use the tax money for enforcement and rehabilitation. Unfortunately, the government has spent so much money and effort in psychological warfare trying to win their war on drugs, that the people will never allow them to do that. I've not heard a single alternate suggestion from those that are adamant about legalization being a bad idea.

Sticking our heads in the sand, while politically easiest, is a bad way to develop government policy.

 

[Tgace]

Chemical dependence is only one factor of alcoholism and by itself requires long term bouts of intoxication. A few days of enough heroin and you will be addicted.

SOME people can become alcoholics after one bout of drinking. ANYONE can be turned into a heroin addict if they ingest enough over a realtively short period.


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[Makalakumu]

One of the big issues with the illegality of drugs is that it drives the price up. This money is tempting for a lot of people...including our own government. Many times in the past, it's been caught red handed shipping it in. Recently, court cases in the US have arrested drug kingpins testifying that they are shipping the drugs in for the CIA. All around the world, intelligence organizations have their fingers in the pots of various narco-states and bleed off the profits to fund special projects. The end result looks like US Marines who are forced to guard poppy fields in Afghanistan.

A huge level of government corruption could be combated simply by making drugs legal and finding other solutions to help people who get addicted.

 

[Tgace]

All very easy to say from your livingroom. Will never work.

Lets just sell a drug that will become physically addictive as a medical certainty? That sounds like a good idea? Really? Great Britain tried it....dismal failure.

Maybe decriminalizing simple possession...maybe...

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