What would you do?

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by IcemanSK, Dec 31, 2009.

  1. IcemanSK

    IcemanSK El Conquistador nim!

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    6,479
    Likes Received:
    175
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Let's say you had the bills paid for your school space for a year...money was not an issue, so you didn't charge your students. You open the doors & have 25 students between the ages of 16-30 for the first class. You run a hard, hour & a half class 4 days the first week. At the first class of the next week, you only have 10 students return! The rest thought it was just too difficult.

    Would you change your classes? Would you continue as it were doing?
     
  2. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Messages:
    7,185
    Likes Received:
    210
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Nacogdoches, Tx
    if 10 came back, it wasnt too hard
     
  3. Tensei85

    Tensei85 Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    May 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,097
    Likes Received:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Michigan
    I think if depends, there will always be an influx, & a struggle with retention rates.

    I would conduct a survey what their expectations are, what their goals are(Immediate/future), what they feel the value of training would be, why they came to you.

    That way you can garner the specifics & device a more suitable curriculum to stabilize the retention rates.

    But its been common in my experience to see 10 people walk in the door & 10 people walk back out the door, so don't let it get to you, its all a learning process. But at the same time maybe you'll find 10 die hard, consistently dedicated students & make everything else worth it to teach.


    Good luck!
     
  4. dortiz

    dortiz Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Northern VA
    Enjoy teaching and working out with 10 devoted people and continue to grow great martial artists.
     
  5. aftab

    aftab Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Agreed. Work with the 10 that you got, nurture them and build on the quality rather then the numbers.
     
  6. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    5,276
    Likes Received:
    215
    Trophy Points:
    188
    If revenue is not an object, the correct answer would be do whatever pleases you. If that means a tougher class with fewer pupils, great. That is my approach for my dojo myself.

    If you want to leave a larger footprint on your community through outreach, then you probably need to make the class more accessible to retain more students.
     
  7. terryl965

    terryl965 <center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    41,259
    Likes Received:
    335
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Grand Prairie Texas
    I would simply take on a second class for the others and help them get in shape.
     
  8. ATC

    ATC Senior Master

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    2,664
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    San Jose
    First I would sit with the 10 students that came back and find out what they liked and did not like. Then I would teach my second class. After that I would contact the 15 non-retruning students and ask them why they did not return. I would also ask them what they liked and did not like. I would also ask both groups what would they like to see add that was not there.

    Then I would prepare for my 3rd class while assessing the feedback. After that I would put togeather my class to my liking as best to fit the feedback but not compromise my standards. That is all you can do.

    You will never please everyone and it is best to make sure you keep yourself happy first.
     
  9. Laurentkd

    Laurentkd Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,376
    Likes Received:
    43
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    Kansas City
    Just to go against the curve (although I guess it's pretty inline with Master Stoker and ATC)...

    By teaching classes this way you are only allowing the positive influence of martial arts to touch 10 people. Maybe by making just a few modifications you could bump that number up to 20. You'll never please everyone, so in the end you have to do what makes you feel the best about your impact as a martial artist.
     
  10. dortiz

    dortiz Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Northern VA
    Edit

    Never mind : )
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2010
  11. Omar B

    Omar B Senior Master

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2007
    Messages:
    3,687
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    Queens, NY. Fort Lauderdale, FL
    If they didn't come back for fear of hard training then good for you, you've unwittingly weeded out those who would have just wasted time and taken attention away for the achievers. 10 students willing to do it your way will turn into 20 soon when they start telling their friends, then 40, and on and on.
     
  12. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    15,075
    Likes Received:
    884
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    In Pain
    So if money was not a limiting factor.

    Continue.

    Eventually you will build yourself a group interested in the heavy duty workout.
     
  13. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    15,075
    Likes Received:
    884
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    In Pain
    The non returning students won't likely give it to you straight. People seldom do and only a very few will tell you they sucked/were too lazy etc to come back.
     
  14. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2009
    Messages:
    3,073
    Likes Received:
    573
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Interesting question. Many possible correct answers.

    If you don't chargethere may be a perception that your lesons are worth what they are paying. People have nothing invested so it's easy to quit.

    If these are all beginning students, then pehaps classes are too hard and the expectationsare too high. Would you teach a weightlifting class and have everyone lif t huge amounts the first day? Would you teach a class on running and have everyone who never ran before run miles and miiles the first day?

    I think it is short sited to expect people who are out of shape to train hard the first class.
     
  15. StudentCarl

    StudentCarl 3rd Black Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    935
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Grand Haven, MI
    This discussion is strange to me because the instructors I know need permission of their masters to open a new school, and it is opened in the name of the master. Instructors must be experienced so they know how to deal with the range of personalities, conditioning and ability that will come through the door.

    If an instructor loses so many after one workout, I think his advertising does not match his product and he does not understand the clients...half the people didn't get what they wanted.

    Taekwondo offers many benefits, but the good instructor takes his students from where they are and helps them progress toward their potential. Perseverence must be nurtured with appropriately progressive instruction.
     
  16. dortiz

    dortiz Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Northern VA
    So is the question about an instructor who runs a program too hard for the average guy or about an instructor that chooses to run a more hard core program not aimed at the average guy?

    "I know need permission of their masters to open a new school, and it is opened in the name of the master. "
    Thats not quality control as much as funds control ; )
     
  17. shesulsa

    shesulsa Columbia Martial Arts Academy

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    Messages:
    27,172
    Likes Received:
    461
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Not BC, Not DC
    If, after six hours of training over the course of four days, I couldn't assess the individual needs of everyone in that group of students and address said needs appropriately during the normal course of the session, I'd say I need more instruction on how to teach.

    You work the extremely fit persons harder, you modify and develop for the challenged and goal the threshold for all thusly.

    Then I might be able to keep ... everybody.
     
  18. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    6,472
    Likes Received:
    268
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Olney, Maryland
    I am assuming that there must have been contact with the departing students, otherwise, you would not know why they did not come back. At that point of contact, I would ask them for honest feedback and thank them for whatever I get.

    As an instructor, I have a good idea of what I want to teach and the level of difficulty for the class. On my teaching days, I run a demanding but not hard core class; I often wind up teaching the kids classes. But with adults, my main focus is on instruction in technique. I let my GM do the hard core stuff.

    I frequently am asked to teach beginners, so I treat them as if they have no experience whatsoever. Thus, the classes are not over the top and mainly are focused on kibon anyway. I generally work with only a few basics at a time.

    Consequently, if I am told that my class is too hard, and in this example, it is a white belt class (new students all start at white), chances are that the students are much more out of shape than they had thought, or they are quitting for some other reason.

    If I am not charging money for the class, I would be curious as to why the fifteen dropped off, but I would be much more concerned with the progress of the ten who stayed.

    Daniel
     
  19. Gorilla

    Gorilla Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Messages:
    1,759
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Your picture of President Obama offends me!!!

    Your statement that hogus are for wussies could be construed as a challenge!!! It is surely a blanket statement and a insult!

    You have the right to post and say what you want. You can be as offensive as you like. I have always been one to stand up to bulliy's. If you are not a bully you certainly employ the tactics of one.

    Keep talking it lets us all know who you really are!!!
     
  20. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Messages:
    7,185
    Likes Received:
    210
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Nacogdoches, Tx
    some people's kids................123
     

Share This Page