Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Kung Fu Wang, Nov 4, 2019.
I will post a video so you can count how many times I get hit before responding.
Here is a video of me sparring my sparring partner throws over 100 strikes. I threw about 37 strikes. What do you think I'm doing when I'm not striking? Do you actually think that through all of this I'm not analyzing, taking notes about what my opponent is doing and how he reacts to what I do? Do you honestly think I'm just taking the hits and not trying to learn and observe? Are you telling me that through this entire clip my brain is too slow to process 26 things?
"The unconscious processing abilities of the human brain are estimated at roughly 11 million pieces of information per second. Compare that to the estimate for conscious processing: about 40 pieces per second.*" Source: Your Brain Sees Even When You Don't
"MIT neuroscientists find the brain can identify images seen for as little as 13 milliseconds.
magine seeing a dozen pictures flash by in a fraction of a second. You might think it would be impossible to identify any images you see for such a short time. However, a team of neuroscientists from MIT has found that the human brain can process entire images that the eye sees for as little as 13 milliseconds — the first evidence of such rapid processing speed.
That speed is far faster than the 100 milliseconds suggested by previous studies. In the new study, which appears in the journal Attention, Perception, and Psychophysics, researchers asked subjects to look for a particular type of image, such as “picnic” or “smiling couple,” as they viewed a series of six or 12 images, each presented for between 13 and 80 milliseconds.
“The fact that you can do that at these high speeds indicates to us that what vision does is find concepts. That’s what the brain is doing all day long — trying to understand what we’re looking at,” says Mary Potter, an MIT professor of brain and cognitive sciences and senior author of the study."
source:In the blink of an eye
The brain doesn't only help you analyze what you see with your eyes, it also helps you analyze what touches you, like a punch or kick.
Yes fights happen very quickly and you are working on instincts plus what you know in terms of trained repetitive motions and in terms on what you understand is before you. A lot of processing time can be shorten through repetition and understanding before hand what realities and opportunities exists when your opponent does A. Your body can process tons of visual and tactile information. The more your body becomes familiar with these things the faster it can process it. The faster your body can understand what's before it the quicker the brain will process that information.
Have someone jab at you 1000 times a day. Because of this you will be able to understand incoming jabs better and you'll process that information faster. You'll be able to process this information much faster than someone who only gets jabbed at 5 times a day.
In this video clip my sparring partner throws 100+ strikes at me. I only threw about 40 strikes at him within the same time period. Between the 2 of us who is becoming more familiar with punches and the movement's involved with the punches? Who is getting more opportunity to analyze incoming punches. Who is getting more opportunity to deal with punches? If you throw 5000 strikes at me per week and i only give you 1000 per week. I would have spent more time figuring out punches and trying different things then you would have. I've said this many times before. Sparring to Learn vs Sparring to Win. If you look at the majority of my sparring videos it looks like 2 things are happening. 1. I'm watching what's going on, 2. I'm getting a beat down. Yet I can do my kung fu techniques, because hell, I've been hit freaking 100+ times so If I can't figure stuff out by the end of the week, then I'm just not paying attention to what's going on in front of my own eyes.
Sparring to learn vs Sparring to Win. When a real fight breaks out people stick with what they feel comfortable with some simple kicks and jabs. Because I spar to learn I'm able to be comfortable with a lot of stuff. So instead of me just sticking to 2 or 3 "money makers" that I can rely on. I'm actually sticking with 7 or 10 things that I know I can do in a real fight. So I only have to worry about 2 or 3 things, while my attacker is going to have 7 or 10 things to deal with. If people fight with the Basics that they are strong with , then it only makes sense to increase the number of techniques that you would consider as basics, based on your ability to successfully do those techniques.
In other words. If you fall back on your basics, then practice a technique and understand an attack until your reach the level where that is basic for you. That way when you fight, you have more to pull from. You guys are making this stuff way too difficult.
That's exactly what I mean. And it's not necessary to actually ask these questions in our minds as if we are talking in order to take them into consideration. They are acting like I'm talking to myself in my head. We can take notice of things without asking ourselves questions. If we want to cross the street, we don't sit there asking ourselves questions like "do I have enough time to cross the street?" "how fast is the car going?" "If it's a car can it stop faster than a big truck moving at the same speed?" " does the car looks as if they see I'm trying to cross the street,?" All of these type things are quickly processed in our minds without having to talk it out in our heads. Try crossing the street on a rainy day and even more factors are taken into consideration without us having to talk to ourselves.
I don't know why this is so hard to understand and why they are making it out like it's some super human power. The entire concept of "instinct" is the ability of our brain to process things in information without having to do a verbal play by play announcement for our brains to communicate with the body.
I'm not worried about it, it is what it is. Based on Martial D's comments I thought I may need to take a look at my ego, but after the last comments, I see they are making things Magical and it's not. Anyone can do what I'm talking about as they do similar processing on a regular basis if they get out of the house. There is nothing special about the 26 things I listed. When a person spars to learn they have the time that they need to process, the more they do it, the faster they get at the processing. If a person is sparing to win, then they are restricting that processing to what they are comfortable with their "go to plan". If they are sparring to win all the time then what I say is going to sound like I got a Macho ego or that I think I have super hero powers.
I keep telling everyone I spar to learn which is different than sparring to win. If I'm sparring to win, then I'm going to take what I know and what I'm good at and I'm going to try to dominate my opponent. My sparring video of me sparring at high intensity shows me giving more strikes than receiving. My other videos are just the opposite. Where it's clear to see I'm observing, analyzing and taking in a lot of information even if it means I'm going to get hit
No one jumps in the middle of the ocean with rough seas to learn how to swim
no when a fight breaks out some one has hit you are grab d you or pushed you over etal, and you have to fight from what ever position you are you n, n what ever environment it's happening. you don't have a strategy, you have instinctive reactions to hit or grab or what ever is available to you, if you reallythink people danc around you feinting whilst you assess the for weakness and predictability, your sadly mistaken, you can't choose a technique from your tool box, you see an opening you hit them with your head or your first or your foot or your knees ect. , any technues that has more than three moving parts is unlikely to be any use to you, so that really only leaves the basics
So what you are saying that there is no strategy in street fighting at all. That a person doesn't have a game plan at all in the event that a fight breaks out. So everyone here on MT is just walking around clueless so that when a fight breaks all, all of that training goes out of the windows and everyone just cat swings.
So when a person sucker punches someone, his strategy wasn't to sucker punch the other guy. All that stuff is just instinct? Ok You are right. So I'm the only guy here that has a strategy before during, and after a confrontation breaks out?
Works for me.
When you train an advanced skill and become good enough at it's application, then it will become a basic for you. Take basketball.
Beginner basics = just dribbling the ball
Intermediate basics = No look dribbling
Advance basics = stuff they do as naturally as breathing. No look dribbling, switching hands, between the legs and behind the back passes.
Lets take a look at BJJ
Beginner basics = ?
Intermediate basics =?
Advanced basics = ?
Get into a street fight BJJ sucks because all that person is going to do is revert to 3 beginner basic moves.
by the way not all street fights are surprise attacks. A lot of them escalate to that point
One of these guys clearly had a strategy.
Same as this. If you don't think there was any strategy going on here, then I don't know how people train these days, which is why I'm getting all this flack about stuff that should be simple. Such as 1. dont' get into a fight unless you got some kind of strategy to either win or escape. It's not rocket science guys. This stuff is really simple. If you can't size up a situation or lack the skills to read a situation, then maybe that's something you should work on. It's up to you. Take a self-defense class. They teach that type of stuff.
yes it very much goes out of the window, maybe you'll be lucky and get attacked by someone who waits for the ref to touch gloves and say GO, and then circles you for a minute or so, then straight into your 26 point assessment plan, i'm not saying it never happens
they all escalate, just most of them escalate very very quickly, like that one, nothing happening, nothing happening BOOM, fight started and finished and in 2 seconds.
did he have a strategy ? it just looked to me that he went for a basic move, which presented itself, that he did very well, which is what i'm saying is THE strategy do what ever is obvious and do it as well as you can
If what you say is true then that means a person who knows BJJ would never try to take someone down to the ground in a fight because all of their BJJ skills go out the window. If that's what you believe then you are more welcome to believe that. So that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to accept that's what you truly believe and move on.
that's just a strawman it would be like saying a boxer would never throw a punch and i'm not saying that either
Well I'm not sure where the communication is getting lost, but I can guarantee that I'm not talking about anything crazy and I've read more than enough of your posts to know that you "should know better" based on your past discussion. But for whatever reason we are talking past each other on this one.
Stuff like this is why I enjoyed the webinar that I did last week. Stuff wasn't cloudy and it's easier to understand what people say than what they write.
@JowGaWolf for what it's worth, I don't perceive a huge amount of ego in your posts. All I can see is how passionate you are about your training/art.
Even in your first post in this thread, I knew it was an honest misunderstanding on your part, and I figured you would make the type of clarifying follow up post that you did make. Just based on the kind of character impression I have of you from the forum.
I appreciate how much you post and your cerebral kung fu training you share.
So there's that, but
my strategy against a one armed fighter would start how my strategy usually is when sparring or having matches.
Distance management and using the threat of my kicking techniques to open up for easy (low risk for me) punches, or vice versa.
I would be curious to see what kind of head kick defense they would employ since they have one side exposed.
I've never grappled with someone with one arm, but I would also look to see what kind of scenarios I can get where I can occupy there one arm and I would still have one or both free to work.
I also use this type of information collection. Sometimes consciously in the moment, sometimes immediately after an exchange, or in retrospect.
My first coach would call it Body Computer.
The more safe sparring time I had where my head was clear, the more information I would download over time. That was sort of the approach.
Over time my mind/body learned what distances and angles were safe or unsafe for me and I could naturally react.
The more well-proccessed information I could feed into the Body Computer, the more my body would recognize these same scenarios. You can unconsciously perceive and react to danger or openings.
There's obviously more to fight training than just this, but there is a wealth of information to be collected any time you touch hands with someone.
I appreciate your honest feedback and can see that I'm not out to be some kind of jerk or know it all. For me, I figure it's better to be passionate about what I do, than to be overly cautious about being wrong.
Had I not responded the way I did then I wouldn't have known what I now know about the one arm boxer. I definitely would not have researched a little more about him, if I was too afraid to comment and be wrong. A lot of good lessons and person growth can be missed if we are too afraid of losing, failure, or being wrong. At least that what I tell myself when I close the doors and cry into my pillow lol. But seriously, the reality is that I can't be right about everything and I'm just really comfortable with that reality. But if you ever think I'm being unfair please say so. I listen to what people have to say and I don't mind a little self-reflection on my behavior or tone.
I'm gland I'm not the only one that understands this. I was beginning to think that no one understood this. I was about to break open some serious science and medical journals. lol.
well im understanding you, the issues seems to be that im telling you , you're wrong or at least over optimistic and your having trouble accepting that.
i think it was iron mike that said '' everyone's got a plan until you punch them''
if that's true of boxing its doubly true of fights outside the ring, you don't have enough control of the environment or knowledge of the opponent to have anything other than a vague strategy and even that will likely need changing after a few seconds, to reflect what's actually happening rather than what you thought might happen. ( nb your now both upside down in a rose bush, fight from there) you are very unlikely to get a period of consideration at the beginning which will allow you to run through your 26 point assessment protocol. people go from nothing to 100% very quickly, they don't float round you throwing feints whilst you assess their movement patterns
I don't like this saying because regardless of if I have a plan or not, I'm going to get punched. Every plan I make is in the context that I'm going to get punch. So quote has no meaning to me. So no matter how many times I hear this. It doesn't apply to me for the simple fact that
I'm going to have a plan because having one, is better than not having one at all regardless of if I get punched or not.
I'm going to get punched regardless of if I have a plane or not, which brings me back to #1
Call me arrogant, over passionate, or having a big EGO. I see this as an inescapable reality and as such this is where all of my logic and strategy is developed.
If I get hit during light sparring what would make me think I would escape hits when the intensity, speed, and power increases? if I already know that I'm going to get hit then what meaning does this saying have for me?
Like i said before. I'm done with this. If you think I have an ego then so be it, If you think I'm delusional about what I can actually do then so be it. Nothing I've said is out of the realm of reality and people process more than 26 things on a daily basis within seconds, some of it processed even less than that.
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