Fighting strategy

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Kung Fu Wang, Mar 19, 2021.

  1. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Sr. Grandmaster

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    A: What's fighting strategy?
    B: You should do the right thing at the right time.

    Do you think B's strategy is too abstract?

    IMO, to use one hand to open your opponent's guard, you then use the other hand to punch through that opening is a good strategy - create an opening, attack that opening.

    How will you define fighting strategy?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
  2. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Strategy is the overall goal or what you want to accomplish. So if your overall goal is to open the opponent's guard that is the strategy. The action you do to accomplish that is the tactics. Create an opening in the opponent's guard and attack into the opening is the strategy. Using one hand to momentarily trap or open the guard and striking with the opposite arm crossing the lead arm is the tactics.
     
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  3. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Sr. Grandmaster

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    - Do WC guys use "open your opponent's guard" strategy?
    - When you do that, do you use your leading hand, or back hand?
    - Do you open your opponent's guard differently depend on whether you are in uniform stance, or mirror stance?
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
  4. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree with Danny. To me, what you've described sounds like the tactics. I'll give you one strategy I sometimes use: stay just beyond their comfortable range to draw them into making bigger movements (longer attacks, bigger entries, etc.). A basic strategy I teach is to wait for an opening (which we can help manufacture, or just take advantage of if they give it), take the opening, and don't give it back. This should be basic, but a lot of folks seem to learn "my turn, your turn" sparring.

    So, yes, the strategy described by B in your OP is too vague. It's kind of a catch-all. In fact, it's a catch-all for both strategy and tactics. Take any strategy/tactic and see if it fits that description. It does (unless it's obviously bad, like walk into every punch to catch them off-guard).
     
  5. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    I think it's very difficult to split the difference between strategy and tacticsI, it all gets rather lost in semantics, staying just out of range is also a tactic rather than a strategy, I'd suggest,
    if your going to say there is a differance between the two, then it would be that you need at least two tactics to have a strategy, first you get them to over reach as a tactic, then you punch them as a tactic, together they equal a strategy
     
  6. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    I think this is an excellent example and an important point to remember. Sparring can be a useful tool, but it depends on how it is being done. It can actually teach bad habits. It isn’t automatically the best thing to do. It depends.
     
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  7. Rat

    Rat Master Black Belt

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    To be fair, being aggressive and hitting first seems to always work, unless the opponent is a decent counter puncher, at least in regards to fists and not sport. (some degree sport) Kind of hard to react well if you have been clocked in the face 3 times before you go to guard.

    Plus most people tend to start off timid so going on the extreme aggresive side may be benifical
     
  8. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Sr. Grandmaster

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    I don't know the difference between strategy and tactics. IMO, there are

    1. entering strategy - how to enter safely.
    2. finish strategy - how to finish fast.
     
  9. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    There's definitely grey area. If we talk about just staying out of range, I'd agree that could be classified as a tactic (though we could go more specific into HOW we stay out of range, but that's the semantics you're talking about). Getting someone to overreach would be the result of a tactic - I'm having trouble parsing that one as a tactic, itself. The punch would definitely be a tactic (well, to push the nitpicking again, probably a technique). So yeah, putting them together is strategy, though we could probably also outline a higher-level strategy, too.
     
  10. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Sr. Grandmaster

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    I believe the following are strategies:

    - Guide your opponent's leading arm to jam his own back arm.
    - Attack your opponent's leading leg. When he steps back, you then attack his other leg.
    - Use pull to set up push, or the other way around.
    - Attack linear, then attack circular, or the other way around.
    - Use line to counter circle. Use circle to counter line.
    - Get both of your opponent's legs if you can, otherwise, get one leg first and get the other leg afterward.
    - Move yourself out of your opponent's attacking path, give him plenty space, and lead him into the emptiness.
    - Fight in your opponent's territory instead of to fight your own territory.
    - Interrupt your opponent's power generation and speed generation in the early stage.
    - Lead your opponent into some areas that you are more familiar with than he does.
    - Try to obtain a clinch ASAP.
    - It's better to be on top than to be on the bottom. It's better to be inside than to be on the outside.
    - Shaking is the best strategy to deal with a big and strong opponent.
    - Don't allow your opponent to put weight on his leading leg.
    - If your opponent punches/kicks you, you run him down. If your opponent does nothing, you still run him down.
    - ...
     
  11. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    upload_2021-3-21_19-31-46.png
    The way the elbow goes up, makes me think of WC Bong Sao. There is probably a good reason why we don't see this in TMA

    Strategy - would be the plan
    Tactics - is the action used within the plan

    What's your strategy to win a fight " keep my distance and use my kicks"
    What are you Tactics for winning the fight "Using low kick as my opponent advances."

    I the case of this clip
    Strategy = pull my opponent's guard
    Tactic = How I go about pulling my opponent's guard. Lead hand Trap (palm backwards) Cross
     
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  12. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    For me, the harder my opponent Brawls, the easier it will be for me.
     
  13. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Enter safely - Strategy (This is the plan to victory)
    Enter safely by pulling your opponent's guard as shown in the video = Tactic (a specific action that will help you Enter Safely)

    Enter safely could mean a lot of things. It's a general goal but doesn't tell you how to actually do it.
    Tactics are specific, like wake up at 2 am and punch him when he's sleeping is a tactic. That would meet the requirements of "Enter Safely"
     
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  14. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I didn't read all of these, but most look like Strategies to me as they do not define the the actions that would be used to accomplish the goal.

    Guide your opponent's leading arm to jam his own back arm = Strategy because it doesn't tell you what actions to use to accomplish this.
     
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  15. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Sr. Grandmaster

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    So

    - Strategy is what.
    - Tactic is how.

    I have to admit that I didn't separate the difference.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
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  16. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Those sound like categories of tactics to me, though as Jobo pointed out, the distinction between the two isn't a clear one.
     
  17. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Most of those are strategies to me, too. Some are somewhere around the border. A few I might classify as tactics, depending what you mean by them.
     
  18. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    That's pretty much the distinction I try to draw. It still leaves some grey. And when you get into the "how", the more specific it gets, the more likely I am to call it "technique" rather than "tactic".
     
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  19. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Sr. Grandmaster

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    With "what" but without "how" have no meaning to me. For example, To do the right thing at the right time is too abstract to be strategy in my definition.
     
  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree that's too abstract. To me, a strategy would be something more like "work his lower body to tire him out and get him to leave his head more open for the big punch".123
     

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