What is your plan for re-opening?

[geezer]

I was reading through this, and thinking that you have that third option right up until that last sentence. Especially at the double association dues portion.

Did you notice that the head instructor (who makes all these decisions) has a perspective on Covid-19 that's a lot like Mr. Skribs? Of course that's his business.

I live in another state and can't worry about people whose worldview is so different from mine. Especially since there's nothing I can do to change that perspective. The man is my personal friend, but we truly live in different worlds. l am truly sorry that I cannot continue to teach with his organization. He is technically very skilled and knowledgeable.

On the other hand, this will free up more time for my Escrima. And if this covid thing eventually is brought under control, maybe I can finally fulfill my long held dream of becoming the oldest white belt to start training at a nearby BJJ school I've had my eye on.

 

[geezer]

In my state, 0 children deaths, only 1 death of anyone under 40.

This whole "its for the children" nonsense is just fearmongering.

Dunno. My kids will be pretty affected if my wife and I die. Their grandparents too (My dad is 95). Who will help them finish college?

On the bright side, my wife and I finally made out a real will ...after 30 years of marriage .

 

[geezer]

In my state, 0 children deaths, only 1 death of anyone under 40.

This whole "its for the children" nonsense is just fearmongering.

BTW Skribs, what is your state? Mine is lethargic and mildly depressed.

 

[Headhunter]

In my state, 0 children deaths, only 1 death of anyone under 40.

This whole "its for the children" nonsense is just fearmongering.

It's not about the children dying.....yeah more than likely the children won't die and will be perfectly fine....but thr children are the carriers they'll pass it on to their parents who'll then pass it to their work colleagues and so on....again WHY ARE SCHOOLS CLOSED

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

My kids will be pretty affected if my wife and I die.

Agree! People may not pay enough attention on this. Even if children may not die from it. Children can still pass it to his family members.

The attitude that "You only cry when you see coffin" is not good. Don't wait until everything is too late.

 

[Headhunter]

In my state, 0 children deaths, only 1 death of anyone under 40.

This whole "its for the children" nonsense is just fearmongering.

"Only 1" so what that one person who died is insignificant are they? That's one life to many that's been taken. That's someone's son or daughter or granchild or potentially mother or father been taken. You can call it fearmongering but I'd rather that everyone is scared and keeping away rather having more and more people dying. Yes more people die of flu and plenty of other things but people ARE dying from this and if there's a way to prevent more dying than you should be doing it. Not coming up with stupid conspiracy theories or worrying about opening up your martial art school

 

[skribs]

It's not about the children dying.....yeah more than likely the children won't die and will be perfectly fine....but thr children are the carriers they'll pass it on to their parents who'll then pass it to their work colleagues and so on....again WHY ARE SCHOOLS CLOSED

You're right. Your variables are the only ones that matter. Variables like:

• Kids stuck all day with abusive parents
• Childhood obesity (which is going to rise if kids are stuck at home)
• Lack of socialization with peers (real socialization, not social media)

But you've made up in your mind that you're right. That your sources are "facts" and mine are "political." So you probably don't want to hear about any variables that go against your opinion, either.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Yes, you did. Political fact checkers are usually partisan sites built to be linked in political debates.

That way you can say you're looking at independent fact checkers instead of political sites. It's misleading, if not downright deceitful.

I was the one who used the fact checker, not @Flying Crane . And they list how they come up with their answers and are transparent about it, so if transparency, facts, and sources is biased, then there's a bigger issue here.

Here's an analysis done on whether or not there's bias with that political fact-checker, reported by poynter but done by independent researchers. Is PolitiFact biased? This content analysis says no - Poynter

And keep in mind that the result itself was half-true. They stated that there is a financial incentive, but that there's no evidence that people were diagnosing based on that incentive.

Your linked articles were interesting though-and it's probably true that people are taking deaths where someone had COVID, and stating that it's a COVID death.

The second link that you added (which was a factchecker, which confuses me), sources the person who made the initial claim about all of this, where it states

In an interview with FactCheck.org, however, Jensen said he did not think that hospitals were intentionally misclassifying cases for financial reasons.

It then states

“There’s an implication here that hospitals are over-reporting their COVID patients because they have an economic advantage of doing so, [which] is really an outrageous claim,” Gerald Kominski, senior fellow at the UCLA Center for Health Policy Research, told us. And, he said, any suggestion that patients may be put on ventilators out of financial gain, not medical need, “is basically saying physicians are violating their Hippocratic Oath … it would be like providing heart surgery on someone who doesn’t need it.”

, and

He surmised that potential instances of patients being wrongly “upcoded” — or classified as COVID-19 when they’re not — are “trivial compared to these other forces that are affecting hospital finances.”

Berenson and others we spoke with also said that hospitals have profound disincentives for “upcoding,” which can result in criminal or civil liabilities, such as being susceptible to being kicked out of the Medicare program.

Jensen himself said in a phone interview that he was not alleging widespread medical fraud.

“Do I think people are misclassifying? No,” Jensen said. He said his concerns centered on what he deemed “less precise standards” for certifying deaths promulgated by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and how deaths classified as COVID-19 without corroborating positive test results could lead to an over-counting.

That last one gets at the crux of it. The number may be off. It probably is, which could be from overclassification (which is non-intentional/non-malicious), or underclassification (people dying from related things who didn't go to the hospital for whatever reason. Which if you work in a hospital and it's anything like here, you know people were actively avoiding going particularly at the beginning, even if they thought they had COVID).

With the third link, from what I understand of it, that's referring to adding a 'presumed' factor. Which would fall into the suspected vs. confirmed range that people have taken as well.

 

[skribs]

"Only 1" so what that one person who died is insignificant are they? That's one life to many that's been taken. That's someone's son or daughter or granchild or potentially mother or father been taken. You can call it fearmongering but I'd rather that everyone is scared and keeping away rather having more and more people dying. Yes more people die of flu and plenty of other things but people ARE dying from this and if there's a way to prevent more dying than you should be doing it. Not coming up with stupid conspiracy theories or worrying about opening up your martial art school

I know you're trying to make this a bad thing, but yes. If 1 death was a significant enough metric to make policy on, they'd have banned vending machines a long time ago.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Did you notice that the head instructor (who makes all these decisions) has a perspective on Covid-19 that's a lot like Mr. Skribs? Of course that's his business.

I live in another state and can't worry about people whose worldview is so different from mine. Especially since there's nothing I can do to change that perspective. The man is my personal friend, but we truly live in different worlds. l am truly sorry that I cannot continue to teach with his organization. He is technically very skilled and knowledgeable.

On the other hand, this will free up more time for my Escrima. And if this covid thing eventually is brought under control, maybe I can finally fulfill my long held dream of becoming the oldest white belt to start training at a nearby BJJ school I've had my eye on.

I highly doubt skribs' perspective is based on money. I've not got that sense from his and his conversations here, particularly since there have been parts in time where I believe he mentioned working for free to help out his dojo. I think it's more a result of living location-if you live somewhere where it's not that common YET, you're not going to be as concerned about it. I thought most of it was propaganda myself until it hit NY. The issue is that lack of concern is what causes it to get worse.

 

[Headhunter]

You're right. Your variables are the only ones that matter. Variables like:

• Kids stuck all day with abusive parents
• Childhood obesity (which is going to rise if kids are stuck at home)
• Lack of socialization with peers (real socialization, not social media)

But you've made up in your mind that you're right. That your sources are "facts" and mine are "political." So you probably don't want to hear about any variables that go against your opinion, either.

And your martial art school is going to come in and save the day is it?

Abusive parents: there are still child services they haven't closed down and teachers at schools are still working and constantly checking in on students.

Obesity: people are still allowed out for exercise. No reason they can't go for a walk or a run or buy an exercise bike or whatever.

Socialisation: there are video chats for a reason. Yes it's not perfect but it's neccesary at the moment.

My "sources" is simply common sense and experience working with children and knowing you can't keep them 2 metres apart realistically. When this started I volunteered to go into a school that remained open for essential workers kids. There were 3 kids in the whole school and they couldn't keep apart from each other when playing at lunchtime. It simply won't happen

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

You're right. Your variables are the only ones that matter. Variables like:

• Kids stuck all day with abusive parents
• Childhood obesity (which is going to rise if kids are stuck at home)
• Lack of socialization with peers (real socialization, not social media)

But you've made up in your mind that you're right. That your sources are "facts" and mine are "political." So you probably don't want to hear about any variables that go against your opinion, either.

All of this is absolutely true, and children aren't the one suffering from this disease. IMO the bigger issue with kids, is that they are the ones spreading the disease. They are much more likely to become asymptomatic, and I would bet (don't have a source for this, but it makes sense to me) that they are more likely, depending on the age, to either not care about social distancing, or forget about it and have to constantly be reminded to stop adjusting their mask, or stop going over to the stranger, or cover their mouths when they cough, all the normal stuff kids already had trouble remembering. That, combined with people not realizing they have it, means it would be very easy for a parent to have it, give it to a kid, when they congregate spread it through the kids, and end up with a bunch of sick parents.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

All of this is absolutely true, and children aren't the one suffering from this disease. IMO the bigger issue with kids, is that they are the ones spreading the disease. They are much more likely to become asymptomatic, and I would bet (don't have a source for this, but it makes sense to me) that they are more likely, depending on the age, to either not care about social distancing, or forget about it and have to constantly be reminded to stop adjusting their mask, or stop going over to the stranger, or cover their mouths when they cough, all the normal stuff kids already had trouble remembering. That, combined with people not realizing they have it, means it would be very easy for a parent to have it, give it to a kid, when they congregate spread it through the kids, and end up with a bunch of sick parents.

I just want to add to this-of the people that I know who have died from COVID, two of them had children. One of them had a teenager, and the other had a 6 month old and I think his daughter was 3 years old. So those kids will still be effected, but not in a traditional way, and so would any kids of parents who die from it. Luckily for them only one parent died in each, but that's also not a guarantee.

 

[Headhunter]

I know you're trying to make this a bad thing, but yes. If 1 death was a significant enough metric to make policy on, they'd have banned vending machines a long time ago.

You know what I have nothing more to say to you. You go open up and teach kids from you want but frankly you're putting lives at risk. I hope you can live with the potential consequences of your actions

 

[Flying Crane]

Yes, you did. Political fact checkers are usually partisan sites built to be linked in political debates.

That way you can say you're looking at independent fact checkers instead of political sites. It's misleading, if not downright deceitful.

Wow. First, I did not point to any fact checker websites. Others did that. I do find them useful and honest. They often shed light on those who are indeed trying to be deceitful.

So let’s turn the question around: is it only OK to believe political sources when they agree with you? Are all others forbidden, fake news, “democratic hoax” as Covid-19 was called at least once, by a very prominent politician (that little chestnut ain’t fake news, it was said on film!)?

 

[Flying Crane]

I just want to add to this-of the people that I know who have died from COVID, two of them had children. One of them had a teenager, and the other had a 6 month old and I think his daughter was 3 years old. So those kids will still be effected, but not in a traditional way, and so would any kids of parents who die from it. Luckily for them only one parent died in each, but that's also not a guarantee.

Jeezuz, I am so sorry. Were you close to them?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

But you've made up in your mind that you're right. That your sources are "facts" and mine are "political." So you probably don't want to hear about any variables that go against your opinion, either.

Your also confusing all of us at this point. @Flying Crane was the one arguing that you should follow facts. I was the one who presented what you considered a political source, and @Headhunter hasn't mentioned ANY sources or I think even referred to the sources that I linked.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Jeezuz, I am so sorry. Were you close to them?

So first-those aren't the only people I know who have died from it so far. Which might be why I'm still continuing this argument. But luckily for me-no, no one that I was super close to has died yet, that I'm aware of. A couple people that I am close to have gotten it, and were actually sick but none of them have died. All of them have recovered sans 1 of my coworkers/friends who has SOB/fever and is waiting for results/seeing if she can ride it out at home.

 

[skribs]

I am leaving this thread. If I continue to read and post here, I'm going to end up hating a lot of you.

 

[Flying Crane]

So first-those aren't the only people I know who have died from it so far. Which might be why I'm still continuing this argument. But luckily for me-no, no one that I was super close to has died yet, that I'm aware of. A couple people that I am close to have gotten it, and were actually sick but none of them have died. All of them have recovered sans 1 of my coworkers/friends who has SOB/fever and is waiting for results/seeing if she can ride it out at home.

I am really sorry, but honestly cannot be surprised since you are in ground zero.

I keep saying: if we are not super careful then everywhere could become as severe as NYC. If people are willing to say the name of their family member/friend (several actually) who they are willing to let die then I think we are ready to open quickly and carelessly. If not, we need to proceed with caution.