What is your plan for re-opening?

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

https://www.sciencenews.org/article...-why-6-feet-may-not-be-enough-social-distance

This article suggest that being within 23 feet of a person you can still get droplets on them.

Is 6 feet far enough for social distancing? Here's what science says

This article slightly contradicts that one-acknowledges the MIT study, but then states that the study does not prove they're still infectious. However, it also states that the 6 feet is not a magic number, where you can still get infected farther away, and refers a couple time to 'a minimum of 6 feet' or '6-10 feet'. Either way, 6 feet isn't going to make it so you can't spread the virus if you have it but or asymptomatic (and keep in mind that the beginning periods of the virus-where most people are symptomatic, is when it most easily spreads). Of note, it also mentions another thing not brought up here-face masks alone are not enough to stop the spread-you still need to social distance on top of it.

The point is-you should do both, since neither is fully effective on their own. You don't have to, as skribs pointed it out, no one is going to force you. But if you don't do so with the knowledge that you may unknowingly spread the disease, which may end up either killing someone, or having it spread to other people and killing one or more people that way. But if you're fine with people dying because you weren't as careful as you could be, then go for it. And yes, we all take that risk for every virus/flu around, but moreso when it is impacting up large percentages of the population (One county is already at 14%, while others are above 5%), and will only impact larger percentages as time goes on.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

https://www.sciencenews.org/article...-why-6-feet-may-not-be-enough-social-distance

This article suggest that being within 23 feet of a person you can still get droplets on them.

Is 6 feet far enough for social distancing? Here's what science says

This article slightly contradicts that one-acknowledges the MIT study, but then states that the study does not prove they're still infectious. However, it also states that the 6 feet is not a magic number, where you can still get infected farther away, and refers a couple time to 'a minimum of 6 feet' or '6-10 feet'. Either way, 6 feet isn't going to make it so you can't spread the virus if you have it but or asymptomatic (and keep in mind that the beginning periods of the virus-where most people are symptomatic, is when it most easily spreads). Of note, it also mentions another thing not brought up here-face masks alone are not enough to stop the spread-you still need to social distance on top of it.

The point is-you should do both, since neither is fully effective on their own. You don't have to, as skribs pointed it out, no one is going to force you. But if you don't do so with the knowledge that you may unknowingly spread the disease, which may end up either killing someone, or having it spread to other people and killing one or more people that way. But if you're fine with people dying because you weren't as careful as you could be, then go for it. And yes, we all take that risk for every virus/flu around, but moreso when it is impacting up large percentages of the population (One county is already at 14%, while others are above 5%), and will only impact larger percentages as time goes on.

Just want to add, I got the percentages from this site. Coronavirus (COVID-19) case rates by county U.S. 2020 | Statista But I can't tell their source without registering and possibly paying for the site, so I just doublechecked on a different site. This site is what the CDC is recommending following, and they listed 12.2% for that county. But they also specified that they are talking only about confirmed cases. So there are likely more cases where people have not been tested. I also know that in parts of NY and NJ people are being told not to bother getting tested unless they feel they need to go to a hospital/be admitted, and to self-isolate, so the numbers there, which are around 2-3% for the counties I'm referring to, are likely low as well.

 

[Headhunter]

To be honest martial arts is the last thing I care about right now. Yeah not training sucks but I'm still doing my own stuff every day so not like I'm not doing any. Martial arts are not essential and tbh they should be the last things to reopen simply because it's probably the sport that has the most physical contact and simply it's not worth the risk

 

[dvcochran]

Just want to add, I got the percentages from this site. Coronavirus (COVID-19) case rates by county U.S. 2020 | Statista But I can't tell their source without registering and possibly paying for the site, so I just doublechecked on a different site. This site is what the CDC is recommending following, and they listed 12.2% for that county. But they also specified that they are talking only about confirmed cases. So there are likely more cases where people have not been tested. I also know that in parts of NY and NJ people are being told not to bother getting tested unless they feel they need to go to a hospital/be admitted, and to self-isolate, so the numbers there, which are around 2-3% for the counties I'm referring to, are likely low as well.

I live in TN so some of the stats from the Statista site caught my attention. I can confirm that they are Way off, at least for TN. For example Bledsoe County has had 604 confirmed cases with 552 recoveries and zero deaths.
It is not even clear how to interpret the graph. It says per 100,00 but the math just does not work. I have great doubt in it's accuracy.

 

[skribs]

Do you listen to what the scientists and doctors are saying?

Different ones have different opinions. One of my fellow students is an ER Doctor, and he's saying we should be opening things back up. Or should I listen to the doctors that say things you agree with, instead of the doctors I know and trust?

To be honest martial arts is the last thing I care about right now. Yeah not training sucks but I'm still doing my own stuff every day so not like I'm not doing any. Martial arts are not essential and tbh they should be the last things to reopen simply because it's probably the sport that has the most physical contact and simply it's not worth the risk

I could do my own stuff, or I could take a break. However, most of my students are kids. Kids that are stuck inside with their families all day, every day. Kids that need exercise and entertainment. Kids that need socialization. The Zoom classes are okay, but the kids really need to be kids.

 

[Flying Crane]

Same way I mitigate for influenza, staph, and other viruses.

I’m gonna be honest then and say that I think meeting with students right now is a dangerous decision. In this environment it isn’t worth it. By bringing people together you are creating an environment where the virus can spread within that group. Those people then go home, you go home, if someone had the virus it could be going home with any or all of you, infecting your families and beyond.

Martial arts is not an essential activity. It can wait.

I don’t know where you live nor what your regional infection rate is. Maybe it’s low. But that can change quickly and without warning and when it does, it won’t be known until it is already widespread. That is what shutting down and staying home is meant to prevent, so we all collectively can get through this and come out on the other side together.

I’m gonna recommend you stop doing it.

 

[Flying Crane]

Different ones have different opinions. One of my fellow students is an ER Doctor, and he's saying we should be opening things back up. Or should I listen to the doctors that say things you agree with, instead of the doctors I know and trust?

My brother is a doctor. Full disclosure: he isn’t a front-line doctor dealing with high numbers of Covid infections. But he is a practicing doctor and is being affected by the Covid situation. He was talking about maybe we need to accept a certain mortality rate among the population so that we can get the economy open. I’m not sure if this was actually his opinion or if he was just speculating on what some folks are talking about. It was part of a longer discussion my family was having.

Ok, so if we want to talk about acceptable mortality rates then we need to talk specifically about who each of us are willing to lose to Covid. Because if we decide to just open up and allow “herd immunity” to happen then eventually this virus will take someone from each and every one of us. So are we ourselves willing to be a casualty? Are you (not you specifically but “you” everyone in the readership) willing to lose a spouse or partner? A child? A parent? A brother or sister or nephew or niece? Or a best friend or one of your martial arts students or teachers? Several of these? Who are we each willing to put on that chopping block, so that other people can make money? What are their names? Because if we go there, this won’t just be an abstraction of hypothetical “acceptable mortality”. This is gonna get personal for each and every one of us.

I listen to Dr. Fauci.

I also listen to the doctors who have served in the heavily-hit areas like NY City, who are exhausted and stretched to the breaking point trying to care for dying people in the hot zones. These doctors and nurses and other staff keep asking people to stay home so they don’t exacerbate the situation and flood the hospitals with more patients. Keep the infections as contained as possible, don’t act recklessly and allow it to spread further. Not every place is under these extreme conditions, but every place could become like NY City if we collectively do not act responsibly to contain the virus. So I listen to the doctors who have been doing the heavy lifting.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Oklahoma nail salon worker contracted the coronavirus shortly after the business reopened

Barber Who Defied Lockdown In New York Tests Positive For Coronavirus

"I had a mask on, I had gloves on, I did my normal wipes routine ... but obviously, you can still get it through your eyes," Fair said on the "TODAY" show from his hospital bed. "And, of course, I wasn't wearing goggles on the flight.

 

[Flying Crane]

https://www.sciencenews.org/article...-why-6-feet-may-not-be-enough-social-distance

This article suggest that being within 23 feet of a person you can still get droplets on them.

Is 6 feet far enough for social distancing? Here's what science says

This article slightly contradicts that one-acknowledges the MIT study, but then states that the study does not prove they're still infectious. However, it also states that the 6 feet is not a magic number, where you can still get infected farther away, and refers a couple time to 'a minimum of 6 feet' or '6-10 feet'. Either way, 6 feet isn't going to make it so you can't spread the virus if you have it but or asymptomatic (and keep in mind that the beginning periods of the virus-where most people are symptomatic, is when it most easily spreads). Of note, it also mentions another thing not brought up here-face masks alone are not enough to stop the spread-you still need to social distance on top of it.

The point is-you should do both, since neither is fully effective on their own. You don't have to, as skribs pointed it out, no one is going to force you. But if you don't do so with the knowledge that you may unknowingly spread the disease, which may end up either killing someone, or having it spread to other people and killing one or more people that way. But if you're fine with people dying because you weren't as careful as you could be, then go for it. And yes, we all take that risk for every virus/flu around, but moreso when it is impacting up large percentages of the population (One county is already at 14%, while others are above 5%), and will only impact larger percentages as time goes on.

Everyone should read the articles linked here.

 

[Headhunter]

Different ones have different opinions. One of my fellow students is an ER Doctor, and he's saying we should be opening things back up. Or should I listen to the doctors that say things you agree with, instead of the doctors I know and trust?



I could do my own stuff, or I could take a break. However, most of my students are kids. Kids that are stuck inside with their families all day, every day. Kids that need exercise and entertainment. Kids that need socialization. The Zoom classes are okay, but the kids really need to be kids.

There's a reason schools are closed....because it's not safe. Kids can end up passing it on to their parents and don't say about social distancing because that's simply impossible with kids they don't get it and if they're doing something like martial arts they'll end up over excited and forgetting to keep their distance. Just not worth it

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If we didn’t do any testing, we would have very few cases.

The secret to beating cancer is just never to get screened for it.

“Don’t forget, we have more cases than anybody in the world. But why? We do more testing,” Trump said following a tour of a medical supply distributor in Allentown, Pennsylvania. “When you test, you have a case. When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn’t do any testing, we would have very few cases.”

The logic just doesn't make sense to me. Statement like this bother me big time.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I live in TN so some of the stats from the Statista site caught my attention. I can confirm that they are Way off, at least for TN. For example Bledsoe County has had 604 confirmed cases with 552 recoveries and zero deaths.
It is not even clear how to interpret the graph. It says per 100,00 but the math just does not work. I have great doubt in it's accuracy.

Thanks. It sounded off, and like i said couldnt figure out their source which is why i added the cdc-approved stats. I would go by that over statista.

 

[jobo]

If we didn’t do any testing, we would have very few cases.

The secret to beating cancer is just never to get screened for it.

“Don’t forget, we have more cases than anybody in the world. But why? We do more testing,” Trump said following a tour of a medical supply distributor in Allentown, Pennsylvania. “When you test, you have a case. When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn’t do any testing, we would have very few cases.”

The logic just doesn't make sense to me. Statement like this bother me big time.

its a perfectly logical statement, its Schrodinger's cat , if you dont know how many have got the virus, then you have far less confirmed cases.

as a rule of thumb the infected levels an a 100 multiple of the deaths, so thats circa 3.5 hundred thousand for the UK. if youve only tested a few tens of thousands of people as we have the confirmed rate is no higher than 3000, if you test a million then the confirmed rate with be a 50 times higher

whats not at all clear is if the death rate is accurate, in either direction, so it could easily be 7 00,000 infected or 130,000

 

[Headhunter]

If we didn’t do any testing, we would have very few cases.

The secret to beating cancer is just never to get screened for it.

“Don’t forget, we have more cases than anybody in the world. But why? We do more testing,” Trump said following a tour of a medical supply distributor in Allentown, Pennsylvania. “When you test, you have a case. When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn’t do any testing, we would have very few cases.”

The logic just doesn't make sense to me. Statement like this bother me big time.

It does make sense. If you don't test as many that means you get less positive results which in turn makes it look better on paper. If one country doesn't test a single person then they can go around saying "oh look out country has 0 cases" which of course is bs but statistic wise it's the truth

 

[Danny T]

I’m gonna be honest then and say that I think meeting with students right now is a dangerous decision. In this environment it isn’t worth it. By bringing people together you are creating an environment where the virus can spread within that group. Those people then go home, you go home, if someone had the virus it could be going home with any or all of you, infecting your families and beyond.

Martial arts is not an essential activity. It can wait.

I don’t know where you live nor what your regional infection rate is. Maybe it’s low. But that can change quickly and without warning and when it does, it won’t be known until it is already widespread. That is what shutting down and staying home is meant to prevent, so we all collectively can get through this and come out on the other side together.

I’m gonna recommend you stop doing it.

I'll take that under advisement along with other social, economic, mental health, and physical factors in my decision making.

I listen to Dr. Fauci.

I've listen to him as well, even followed his recommendations. Then he changed some of them. Which recommendation are you listening to?

 

[Flying Crane]

I'll take that under advisement along with other social, economic, mental health, and physical factors in my decision making.

Well, I would hate for you to find out that your students became ill and perhaps someone eve died, and it was traced to people coming together in your school. I would also hate for you or your family member to become the casualty of that

I've listen to him as well, even followed his recommendations. Then he changed some of them. Which recommendation are you listening to?

I’ve found him to be quite consistent, although nuancing his position as the virus becomes better understood.

How do you feel he has changed?

 

[skribs]

Well, I would hate for you to find out that your students became ill and perhaps someone eve died, and it was traced to people coming together in your school. I would also hate for you or your family member to become the casualty of that

Same goes for any other communicable disease.

Then there's the issues with isolation: increased depression and suicide, likelihood of increased childhood obesity, increased domestic violence. DV calls are up something like 88% in my town, for example.

And the fact that hospitals are being pressured to use COVID-19 as the cause of death, because they get more money that way.

 

[Headhunter]

Same goes for any other communicable disease.

Then there's the issues with isolation: increased depression and suicide, likelihood of increased childhood obesity, increased domestic violence. DV calls are up something like 88% in my town, for example.

And the fact that hospitals are being pressured to use COVID-19 as the cause of death, because they get more money that way.

Has any other disease in recent history caused all schools and shops to close down? Do you think they did that for fun?.....it's attitudes like this that caused it to spread so much in the first place. If everyone had just stopped and stayed in for a while it'd have gone by now

 

[Flying Crane]

Same goes for any other communicable disease.

Then there's the issues with isolation: increased depression and suicide, likelihood of increased childhood obesity, increased domestic violence. DV calls are up something like 88% in my town, for example.

I won’t deny that these are likely part of the big picture. So who are you willing to lose for the sake of reopening quickly? No reasonable person says we can’t ever reopen. But it needs to be done gradually and carefully. That’s what I’m not seeing happening.

And the fact that hospitals are being pressured to use COVID-19 as the cause of death, because they get more money that way.

Where did you hear this? I’ve not heard this claim.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Where did you hear this? I’ve not heard this claim.

That claim has been making it's rounds a lot, with no evidence that I've found. And no one in my ER has been adding that diagnosis to people for money-the docs don't really care all that much about the hospital's bottom line.

The root of the claim from what I can tell seems to be that COVID is a billable diagnosis for insurances, which theoretically would incentivize hospitals to diagnose for it so they can bill for it. But that's true for most illnesses. Hospitals also can bill for things like heart attacks, but not everyone who comes in with chest pain or limb numbness is being diagnosed with a heart attack.

It's been a bit since I looked into it, so as always feel free to explore it yourself.