What can average joes accomplish realistically in sanctioned competitions?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Bee Brian, Sep 15, 2020.

  1. Bee Brian

    Bee Brian Yellow Belt

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    I'm undoubtedly a very naturally gifted lifter. But I'm untested in boxing. When this pandemic fixes itself, I'll join a certain boxing gym close to home.

    I got my cardio fixed. I should be able to last a solid three rounds in a fight.

    I officially just started lifting weights again today. So all of my body, from head to toe, is gonna be very easily packed with raw punching power. It's EASY for me to pack on strength.

    Physically, I can get there. My concern is the SKILL aspect of boxing...

    Let's just for a moment assume that I'm neither bad nor good in the talent department. I am almost 29 years old right now. How far, in your own rough estimation, can I get with this if I plan to compete in the amateur leagues? Let's just say that I'll be very consistent with my training, manage to stay injury-free, and I'll work hard.

    In your ballpark estimation, how far can I get?

    Thanks folks.
     
  2. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

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    You haven't actually started boxing yet, right? Do you mean how far you can get in an amateur match, or do you want to know if you can go pro? Most likely, with 0 martial arts experience at 29 you're probably not going to go pro, but you could, crazier things have happened. Without seeing you box, or you actually know how good you are/aren't, none of us can really answer this question.

    The only one who probably could is your boxing coach, once you start training, and after he's seen you train for a while.
     
  3. Bee Brian

    Bee Brian Yellow Belt

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    Ohhh Mister Wolf...

    I video-recorded myself doing punches in my gym's heavy bag and holy moly was I extremely slow and clumsy.

    Well, to be really frank with you, I have some experience boxing before in my very early teenage years. I DID WELL. I'm an inside fighter no doubt and I can REALLY do some real damage if I get in range.

    But that's all I know.

    I've met a great kid back in those days who is either very talented or just a very seasoned boxer for his age. None of us stood a chance but I was the worst. But the reason for that was that it was my first time and the other kids have been at it for some months. After training and getting experience, I eventually discovered I'm an inside fighter, able to do damage when I get close, IF I get close.

    I'm guessing with the way my mind works, I'm gonna make some serious, steady progress in the boxing gym with my skills. I am not here to toot my own horn but Wolf, I can tell you with certainty I've never in my life experienced a journey where I ended up not leaving it being a better person. Classic example, my cardio. I went from only being able to do 6 minutes on the stairmaster into being able to do 15:20 on it after 4 months of training it. And then of course, I easily get strong with lifting. I was once bad at math, was forced to be good it, and I became good at it. Same thing with my overall social skills...

    Can you give me a better assessment now with those? Or is it still a mystery for everyone until I get a coach?
     
  4. MA_Student

    MA_Student Black Belt

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    Being a good lifter really means nothing in a boxing match. As for cardio again sure you may be able to run fast but in a fight it’s a complete different type of cardio. I’ve seen marathon runners who couldn’t last a round on pads.. then of course there’s the sparring aspect. You need to spar to get your timing and to take hits. That drains your cardio to. Think running while someone’s punching you in the gut the whole way. You may well be very fit and strong but without actual training you won’t get far at all in the ring against people who are training boxing and sparring and doing cardio and weights.

    you keep talking about weights but weight lifters don’t transition well into fighting with just pure strength. Go look up Eddie hall I guarantee he’s a better lifter than you and when he got on the pads or sparring he looked awful and slow and was gassed very quick. Also without a coach you won’t be allowed to get in the ring as you need a corner man
     
  5. Bee Brian

    Bee Brian Yellow Belt

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    MA_Student, I'm sure this isn't the first thread or first post of mine where you responded to me.

    Please, please, please, stick with my original questions instead of giving me unsolicited opinions that have nothing to do with the questions.

    I'm asking how far I can get, not to argue whether fitness matters.

    I'm sorry if that sounded blunt but I'm just starting to get frustrated by these kinds of replies.

    I'll establish my view right now with this whole lifting for fighting and cardio for fighting thing. This view of mine will never ever change.

    IT COUNTS.

    That's it. Thanks.
     
  6. MA_Student

    MA_Student Black Belt

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    Well I haven’t because I only just came back to this site yesterday. Okay fair enough the answer to how far you can get without a coach?...not very far.

    yes you’re right it does count never said it didn’t but it takes second place to technique. Because if you go in there with just fitness and strength and no technique. You’ll be fighting who also has fitness and strength but also has Technique. If you haven’t already go look up Royce Gracie. Yes it’s not boxing but he dominated people way stronger and way fitter than him because he had better technique.

    I’m certainly not saying you shouldn’t do strength and fitness but if you want to step in the ring you need a coach.

    edit: no I apologise you are right I did respond to one of your threads. Where I said fitness is always good to have and to build it until you get a coach. Which is exactly what I’m saying. Fitness is good for a lot of things not just fighting and it WILL help you in the ring what I’m saying you can’t rely on JUST fitness. Just like how you can’t win a tennis match just because you’re fit or you can’t win a 100 metre sprint just because you lift weights. This is from someone who’s been in the ring. 100% cardio is important and I’m a long time runner but even doing 3 rounds of pads I’m exhausted because it’s different muscle groups being used plus in the ring you have the adrenaline and the fight or flight and the nerves which is what the sparring is for.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
  7. Bee Brian

    Bee Brian Yellow Belt

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    I'll do it with a coach.

    Thanks.
     
  8. Bee Brian

    Bee Brian Yellow Belt

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    Yeah thanks for clarifying that.

    I read in a boxing website that there is a certain minimum threshold of cardio-fitness before you can realistically do well in a match.
     
  9. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Most fighters are average joes.
     
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  10. MA_Student

    MA_Student Black Belt

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    Yes there is but you still need the technique to know how to punch and block and move around otherwise you can be as fit as anything but you’ll be getting picked apart because you can’t land anything. As I said there’s also things like adrenaline and nerves which play a big factor. Plus getting punched or having to pick yourself off the floor or even clinching which is a big drainer.
     
  11. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    Brain, some suggestions……

    Being talented in lifting, swimming, running, wrestling, dancing, kicking etc isn’t going to help you in boxing during those formative, first few years. Save em, they’re good, but tuck them away and work hard in the boxing gym for a couple/three years. Learn the craft.

    Learning the craft is important. But you need a good coach first. Don’t even mention lifting to your coach, he doesn’t care, and he won’t want to hear it. Trust me on this, I’ve spent a lot of time in boxing gyms. You don’t want to be “one of those guys”.

    You mentioned you got your cardio fixed. Was that in reference to the increased time on the stair master? Unfortunately the skill isn’t relative. But the attitude you used to increase your endurance is. So take that attitude and apply it to what your Coach tells you to do for cardio. Boxing cardio is different than, well, different than anything really.

    I relate to your skill set. I’m an inside fighter as well. But inside fighting in boxing is different than inside fighting in any other sport, or with your friends, or in real fights. The better people you train with, the better you’ll learn to box. But those people know how to fight inside as well, and/or know how to completely screw up an inside fighter. Especially one that hasn’t even boxed yet.

    Go, have fun learning your craft, spend a couple/three years in the boxing gym. Tell us about it as you go. We’ll be rooting for you. And we all started the same way, walking in the door thinking, "here we go."

    And as @drop bear said “Most fighters are average Joes.” Go be an average Joe in the boxing gym.

    And always remember Iron Mike Tyson’s favorite quote. “Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth."
     
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  12. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually my first thought was probably "Dammit", because I pushed when I should have pulled.
     
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  13. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    Laughed aloud, I did.

    Yeah.
     
  14. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    tou are rather asking an unanswerable question, there a fair few sucessful boxers who cant box very well, but pack an extremly hard punch,

    a lot also depends what weight your fighting at, bigger guys are slower er generally, and its easier to get by a strengh, if you try that at light weilter weight, youl be punched 50 time before you get 6 ft of your stool

    i can see you have commitment, as such you could go a fair wayjust on that, or you could end up with brain damage in fairly short order
     
  15. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    @Buka gave some very solid advice.

    I would just like to point out that you are carrying at least one very false assumption - and that is that lifting will give you punching power. It won't, and in fact can have the opposite effect. Punching power comes from a combination of body mechanics and fast twitch muscle fibers, not from how much you can lift.
     
  16. Bee Brian

    Bee Brian Yellow Belt

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    Sir, lifting weights develop FAST TWITCH MUSCLE FIBERS. A person with a 500 pound deadlift has more fast twitch fibers than someone who can only do 400.

    It's not a false assumption I assure you. Just to further this argument, there is a reason combat sports are divided into weight classes. Between two guys who have identical technique, the one with more strength will hit harder.

    But I agree. Buka gave great advice and I'll take it to heart.

    Give me five years of boxing training. Five years. I won't get very far because I'm too old. But I'm betting if I become refined, my sparring partners would constantly remind me before every match to hold back. Muscle counts. Strength and muscle are the pillars of POWER, and "power", in sports literature, is nothing more than an expression of what a person can do with his brute strength.
     
  17. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    BUT WHAT YOU CAN LIFT

    also comes from a combination of body mechanics and fast twitch, so there more similarities than differences

    theres a couple of high ranking heavy weights i can think of that spend an inordinate amount of time lifting wights, presumably as it increases their punching power
     
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  18. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Midvale School for the Gifted?
     
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  19. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    Well then, it seems you know everything you need to know. Good luck.
     
  20. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Not really. The issue that you may face is that you will fight guys who have bigger frames.

    So you will be dealing with reach.123
     
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