What are your thoughts on knee on the back of the neck.

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Bruce7, May 29, 2020.

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  1. Bruce7

    Bruce7 Brown Belt

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    I don't know enough to have an opinion. I am guessing the weight of the other officers on the man's chest may have done more damage than the knee on the back of neck, I ready don't know what is your opinion?
    When he stop moving, why did no one check his vitals and give CPR?
    Some of you are police officers and probably could give a better prospective of what went wrong.
     
  2. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Well, we know that it can be lethal. How does weight on the chest possibly do more damage than death? Come on, man. What's the actual question here?
     
  3. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Last edited: May 29, 2020
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  4. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    I hope the whole story comes out soon but I am doubtful.
    In the video I saw it was the amount of time the officer had him pinned down and the fact the the guy was already cuffed that made no sense to me. I really want to know what the officers were waiting on. Why not promptly place him in the patrol car and process him? If they were waiting on an ambulance that was a very strange way to 'detain' the guy. My suspicion is that the officer(s) were (or at least thought they were) following a trained procedure. Regardless, this should run up the chain through the whole police department and heads will roll. It was not a race thing. It would not have mattered what color the person was that was very, very wrong.
     
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  5. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I don't think you need to be on the neck and that could be a red herring.

    And so Mabye one of the other officers caused it? or Mabye just the position caused it?

    I don't know.

    Apparently martial arts experts are jumping on each other's necks to prove one thing or another. But for me I don't really know.
     
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  6. Bruce7

    Bruce7 Brown Belt

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  7. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    That was horrific to watch. To me what was even worse was listening to that man’s voice. You could tell, anyone could tell, the distress and danger he was in. Personally, I have no respect for any of the other officers involved.

    But for officer what’s his name, the one kneeling on that man’s neck, I’m glad he was charged. I had to look up “third degree murder”, I had never heard of it before.

    I suspect he will be very popular in prison.
     
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  8. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I talked to my cousin, along with a couple other cops that I know, about this. They all said that they got a lot of training on this stuff, and were told very explicitly to let up if the person says that they are struggling. Even more so once you have him cuffed-at that point you can let him be safer. They couldn't come up with a reason for the training.

    I asked my dad about it, thinking it might be that the change in training is a new thing, that those cops may not have gotten, or cared for. He told me that he learned basically the same stuff in the 80s, particularly regarding handcuffs. If someone was still struggling while in cuffs, two people would take him to the car and put him in the backseat until whatever they're waiting for arrived. He then went one better. Told me that his dad (who was a cop in the 50s) had taught him at a young age that when he's on the job, once someone is cuffed, and there's multiple cops on scene, the fights over. At that point anything extra is malicious.

    SO what these guys were thinking...I have no idea.
     
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  9. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    As bouncers we were generally not allowed to carry handcuffs. Which I think made the risk of killing someone much greater because you sort of couldn't get off people sometimes.

    It was one of those silly beurocratical moves that never made any sense to me.
     
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  10. TheArtofDave

    TheArtofDave Blue Belt

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    Third degree murder is a lesser felony charge. That's the justice system looking out for their own. After his comments he should have gotten a first degree charge
     
  11. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    You have to prove intent to murder for 1st degree which would be impossible.
     
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  12. JR 137

    JR 137 Grandmaster

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    Intent and premeditated, I believe.

    Edit: one can have intent “in the moment” without premeditation, which I think would be 2nd degree. I’m not looking up laws, nor am I any legal scholar; just going by what I’ve heard from various sources in the past. And legal definitions change from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
     
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  13. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    When you say caused 'it' I assume you mean the man's death? For all we know at this point the guy may have been totally juiced and on the way out from over-dose that was exacerbated by the physical activity. It is all a guess at this point.
     
  14. JR 137

    JR 137 Grandmaster

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    My brother in law is a NYS Trooper, having graduated from the academy about 6 years ago, so his training is still relatively fresh vs someone who’s been on the job for a lot longer and things may have changed. For whatever that’s worth...

    Talking to him about it, he had one word: disgusting. Absolutely no reason to restrain him that way. Once a suspect is handcuffed, they pose minimal risk. If there’s a genuine issue that you need to keep the person pinned down, a knee on the back with minimal weight is all that’s needed. Better yet, knee across their butt. Even a knee in the back can be risky, but you’ve got to weigh your pros and cons in a serious situation, which this one wasn’t. But the knee in the neck isn’t justified in any realistic situation. And why the others didn’t do anything about it is equally disturbing.

    Gives all cops a bad name to too many people. They see one idiot do something like that and think that’s how they all are.
     
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  15. Rat

    Rat Master Black Belt

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    Isnt it had to tell on video/picture pending angle how much pressure is actually on something? More the focus on the neck, it could have been supercial but its hard to tell how much pressure is on something unless you are doing it or reciving it. (yes i know adreline muddies your control ability)

    Not to get too political, but at this point its closer to they see a dozen idiots do it.
     
  16. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    In TN premeditated and first degree are essentially the same thing as they both require forethought. There are state by state differences in interpretation.
    Being 'premeditated' speaks more to the deliberation of the act and as a weighting data used in determining the penalty of the crime. Other weighting data's would be malice, intent, etc...
     
  17. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    With the Medical examiner report claiming that their was no strangulation and that Floyd died from underlying conditions.....even 3rd degree might be a tough case to win by the prosecutor.
     
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  18. JP3

    JP3 Master Black Belt

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    That would depend on what the officer actually said to the other investigators/officers who ended up arresting him. People say dumb stuff to officers all the time which lands them in trouble. I grant you, an officer is much less likely to fall into that.
     
  19. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    Have any of you guys actually been pinned down by a knee on the neck? I don't mean for a few seconds, I mean held down for a minute or so? It is one of the most uncomfortable things I've ever felt, it really hurts. Bad. And it's scary. It's why I'd never use it, unless I've escalated to a deadly force scenario.

    But the man was already cuffed. And there ain't nobody going to tell me that that officer didn't have any other skill to hold that man where he was until transport.
     
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  20. JR 137

    JR 137 Grandmaster

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    Even just sitting down on the suspect’s butt would’ve worked just fine and no chance of any realistic injury.123
     
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