Virginia to ban all forms of self defense

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Gweilo, Dec 15, 2019.

  1. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    Jobo, you are generalizing again. :(

    Honestly, I would guess that, in fact, only a minority of educated Americans believe in that nationalistic "American Exceptionalism" baloney. I'm not especially well educated or widely traveled ...since I'm rather poor. I haven't been to the UK or Europe since my student days. But years ago I did bother to read about the Mexican American war from the Mexican perspective (in Spanish, using Mexican sources) and watched a fascinating documentary on the myth of the Alamo by the Mexican author Paco Ignacio Taibo II. Informative.

    You know that nationalistic "American Exceptionalism" stuff is no different than nationalistic propaganda you can find being exploited for political gain in just about every nation on earth. Yeah. It is a real thing that some buy into, it's dumb, and really annoying. I get that. But don't paint all us Yanks with a broad brush.

    Oh, and BTW 'm always amused that you, and a lot of other people i run across from the UK, Canada and down under, actually have a better grip on how the US political and legal system works than a lot of my countrymen do. And please don't go asking Americans to explain your parliamentary system :oops:. Now that's something we Yanks should think about! ;)
     
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  2. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    i've found a marked contradiction in my own country that takes some thinking about.

    as a general rule, the less educated, the more disadvantaged a person is the more patriotic they are, the more blind they are to how badly they and their ancestor have been treated by this country and the more convinced that they live in the greatest country on earth they are.

    our recent upheaval over brexit has generally been the disadvantaged blaming the EU for there miss fortune and pinning for the days of the british empire, whilst ignoring the fact that's its only the EU and their laws which stop them from being more neglected/ exploited more than they currently are
     
  3. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    well there's 300,000,000 of you, i have to generalise a bit, ` just done a post about how nationalism is the preserve of the poor and poorly educated IN THIS COUNTRY, unfortunately there's an awful lot of them 17,2 million at the last count.

    Nor is america alone in having only hollywood history, that unfortunately what we get as well, most people know far more about the american civil war than the english one, in the fact they know that you had one and it was vaguely about slavery, the intricacies of the mason dixon line seem to have past them by
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  4. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Which English one?

    We've had a few...

    I do remember once being corrected when I mentioned the wars of the roses - "don't you mean war of the ring mate, that film with the wizard and stuff?"

    I honestly had no answer on either a historical or literary level.
     
  5. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    the one that's called '' the english civil war in the history book, the others have been wars between royal houses, for the throne, which don't really fit the definition of a citizens war, royalty are not citizen or subjects by definition, but yea sort of we've had dozens

    it was interesting with game of thrones to see how much was lifted straight from english history. if you watch that you have a good idea what happened though not at all in the correct order and no dragons

    so next time someone says '' war of the roses'' WHAT just say '' game of thrones mate'' but don't tell them there were no dragons
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  6. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    ...er I think he means that series of conflicts in the mid 17 Century between the Cavaliers and the roundheads?

    Kinda important you know, what with with Charles I losing his head and all. If I remember vaguely back to my school days I think it was a pretty big step in increasing the powers of Parliament and in limiting the powers of the monarchy. Pretty important for us too, since we were still subjects of the Crown back then!
     
  7. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    ` yea, but it work out so badly they decided to have a king back, after oliver cromwell named himself lord protector ( king in all but name) and banned christmas along with invading ireland and general being worse than the king they got rid of, a bit of a stuttering step on the road to democracy and one we still haven't recovered from
     
  8. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    In all my life, I don't think I've personally met someone like this. The only time I hear this seems to come from people who become overly defensive about their country and it's almost always in the context of someone who has migrated from another country that expresses their opinion about the new country they live in, ".

    Ironically those who actually say stuff like that are almost doing so that they will believe that nonsense. The only reason I'm saying this, because it's that same group who often have TONS of negative stuff to complain about when it comes to the government. So on one breath they say "American Exceptionalism" and then in the other "the complain about the government, taxes, regulations, education, health care, and a whole bunch of other things. If a country was truly Exceptional, then their wouldn't be much to complain about.

    I definitely hear politicians say it more than every day Americans.
    Funny you say this. Whenever I get into a debate about "the leaders that American's pick reflect the majority American View." I respond with, that's not a realistic view of the U.S. some people don't vote and most people don't know anything about politics other than Present and maybe Governor. State Reps and how our government actually works is not common knowledge with most Americans.

    Too many Americans are afraid to talk about government, then the other half doesn't pay attention to anything the government does, until it's time to vote for a president, There is also that group who doesn't believe that their vote counts. Oh and then there's the conspiracy people. With all of the lack of government knowledge and the misinformation, it's amazing the US has a government at all.

    Not sure if this happens anywhere else.lol
     
  9. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    This is correct and accurate for human leadership. Most harmful leaders want their voters to be uneducated, because it's easier to fool uneducated people. And by educated, I don't mean college vs no college education. By educated I mean people who do seek seek knowledge to help improve their understanding of the world or the society that they live in. A person can be a college graduate and still say and to the most ignorant things. Uneducated people are easy to mislead and get into line. You can just keep feeding them trash, they'll eat it, and will never question. Look at countries with dictators and you'll see the same pattern.

    For me culturally, with the history of Slavery, my family told me stories, when I was a kid, about how slaves weren't allowed to read or learn anything beyond the task they had to do. An uneducated N-----r is and obedient N----r. So by default any politician that's not for educating people or make anti-education comments tend to raise my alarm flags.

    Another good example is how the Taliban didn't want people to learn anything that wasn't taught specifically by the governing group. I tell people all the time, don't let anyone talk you (general) out of your education. Don't let them say (oh it's ok if you can't go to college, you don't need it.). Yet those same people who say that make sure their kids go to college.
     
  10. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    yeah... you would think, but unfortunately there's a lot of misinterpretation about the U.S. Civil war and probably Civil war in general

    For example: I've heard some outlandish stuff when it comes to US Civil War history. It's really scary. There's people here who say that slavery never happened and that some black people back then owned white slaves. Where I used to work, a Civil War actor said that the southern states where actually separate countries. So I was like WTF.... separate countries who voted for the same President and lived under the same national constitution. The sad part is that he was telling this to kids.

    History and Geography are not American strong points. lol. If you ever get into a debate with an American in person. Just have that person name all 50 states. lol. One day someone told me there were 51 states and I almost thought I blacked out and missed some time. How in the world would I miss the 51st state joining the union of states. lol. Amercians.. We are a special breed. lol.
     
  11. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    people see things through there own prism, the poor people in this country were treated dreadfully including being denied even a basic education, up until 1870 it was made compulsory in 1876 to try and stop child labour, which it didn't, this was only to the age of 10, after that you were on your own, unsurprisingly the literacy rates were abismal, meaning the poor stay poor and obviously the rich stayed rich, talk about gaming the system
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  12. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    Different countries teaching different versions of history....

    Who would have ever thought dat?
     
  13. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    ha ha ha..do you live in the US? This sounds soooooo familiar.
     
  14. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    That's why I like history.. There are always different takes on it depending on which side is telling it.
     
  15. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    Good post.
    It is the very reason I said radical liberal(s). I can be quoted several times stating that I fully believe there are many good and fine democrats, just like I know there are mis-guided conservatives. The (D) party is so fractured and errantly guided right now, factually more than any other time in history.

    It is the wording of the bill and ensuing intent that is concerning. It is typical legalese that can be manipulated, misconstrued, and used in other writings to weaken other laws and fundamental beliefs and freedoms.
     
  16. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    Ok, but the error in this comment is in your naming the Revolutionary war our Civil war. Very, very different wars.
    Especially since both countries have a war known as the Civil war, I would encourage correcting this naming convention anytime the error surfaces to avoid the confusion.
     
  17. Gweilo

    Gweilo 2nd Black Belt

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    Maybe thats how you see it, but many others see it as a gradual strangling of true independance, nothing to do with our own glamourised historical past, I did history as an exam at school, many moons ago, only to find that most of it was biased from the British veiw, pushed into the education system by the so called elite of the time.and I am sure this happens in every country in the world, the only real similarities we have is amongst the political elite, commonsense is not common anymore.
     
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  18. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    ive reference three seperate american wars on three separate occasions in three separate contexts im not mixing anything up

    i do call it the war of independence, where you call it the revolutionary war, perhaps that's whats confusing you /?
     
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  19. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    TRUE independence, we have never had TRUE independence, we are controlled by the banks, who control the money supply and if you control the money supply you control the government

    iin the 70s we were being run by the IMF, before that we were being run as a satellite state of america, we had the power to make decisions, but only decision america agreed with

    you need to go back to the thirties, as the last time this country was '' independent'' and then realize that democracy was suspended through most of the 1930s, that's right we used our independence to stop having an elected government, whilst criticizing the germans for doing much the same thing at much the same time for much the same reasons, that is democracy was dangerous to the state. there was a very good chance a communist government would be elected, so they just put a stop to that by canceling the whole concept of elected government

    whilst noting we had only had ( true) democracy for twenty years or so, before they decided to cancel it.

    The only way you can wish this country to be truly independent is if you have no idea of how it used its independence to abuse its own people last time it had it,,

    we are( at least for the moment) still subject to the RULE of The ECHR, though i suspect that will soon become a point of contention to the nationalists, our government was frequently found to be breaching the human rights of its population before it was ''truly independent'' god knows what they will do now
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
  20. Gweilo

    Gweilo 2nd Black Belt

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    I dont remember us ethnically clensing millions of Jewish people, or perhaps in your opinion that was fake history too. I agree with you on how the British people where treated by the governments back then, and I agree Capitalism is not perfect, but you are incorrect on the independance quote, it was until a mr Tony lets shaft the electorate Blair, gave away too much power to the EU, which is controlled by big business. I am fully aware of what our ancestors did in the name of the empire, using our navy to make people comply, and its not domething I wish to happen again, what needs to happen is our parliment needs to decide on where our money goes, and not treat people like the miners as they did, once the backbone of the country, then basically dumped for cheaper imports, and nothing to replace the work apart from paper hat jobs (would you like fries with that), and no investment at all into these areas, left to rot basically, not just the miners though, look whats happened to our industries, steel, motors, shoe making,fishing, all put on hold for the better of other european countries, this is why most voted to leave.123
     

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