Virginia to ban all forms of self defense

[geezer]

i've found the safe zone to be not saying anything bad about america its laws, foreign policy or history. ...as long as everyone agrees that america is the best country on earth, everyone should have a gun and just forget about historical facts and use Hollywood history the thread will keep going

Jobo, you are generalizing again.

Honestly, I would guess that, in fact, only a minority of educated Americans believe in that nationalistic "American Exceptionalism" baloney. I'm not especially well educated or widely traveled ...since I'm rather poor. I haven't been to the UK or Europe since my student days. But years ago I did bother to read about the Mexican American war from the Mexican perspective (in Spanish, using Mexican sources) and watched a fascinating documentary on the myth of the Alamo by the Mexican author Paco Ignacio Taibo II. Informative.

You know that nationalistic "American Exceptionalism" stuff is no different than nationalistic propaganda you can find being exploited for political gain in just about every nation on earth. Yeah. It is a real thing that some buy into, it's dumb, and really annoying. I get that. But don't paint all us Yanks with a broad brush.

Oh, and BTW 'm always amused that you, and a lot of other people i run across from the UK, Canada and down under, actually have a better grip on how the US political and legal system works than a lot of my countrymen do. And please don't go asking Americans to explain your parliamentary system . Now that's something we Yanks should think about!

 

[jobo]

lol.. Don't worry.. I have some choice words to say about my country lol. Never been a fan of the "Perfect Country" or even the "Best Country" attitude of my fellow Americans. It's just not the Worst Place to live lol.

i've found a marked contradiction in my own country that takes some thinking about.

as a general rule, the less educated, the more disadvantaged a person is the more patriotic they are, the more blind they are to how badly they and their ancestor have been treated by this country and the more convinced that they live in the greatest country on earth they are.

our recent upheaval over brexit has generally been the disadvantaged blaming the EU for there miss fortune and pinning for the days of the british empire, whilst ignoring the fact that's its only the EU and their laws which stop them from being more neglected/ exploited more than they currently are

 

[jobo]

Jobo, you are generalizing again.

Honestly, I would guess that, in fact, only a minority of educated Americans believe in that nationalistic "American Exceptionalism" baloney. I'm not especially well educated or widely traveled ...since I'm rather poor. I haven't been to the UK or Europe since my student days. But years ago I did bother to read about the Mexican American war from the Mexican perspective (in Spanish, using Mexican sources) and watched a fascinating documentary on the myth of the Alamo by the Mexican author Paco Ignacio Taibo II. Informative.

You know that nationalistic "American Exceptionalism" stuff is no different than nationalistic propaganda you can find being exploited for political gain in just about every nation on earth. Yeah. It is a real thing that some buy into, it's dumb, and really annoying. I get that. But don't paint all us Yanks with a broad brush.

Oh, and BTW 'm always amused that you, and a lot of other people i run across from the UK, Canada and down under, actually have a better grip on how the US political and legal system works than a lot of my countrymen do. And please don't go asking Americans to explain your parliamentary system . Now that's something we Yanks should think about!

well there's 300,000,000 of you, i have to generalise a bit, ` just done a post about how nationalism is the preserve of the poor and poorly educated IN THIS COUNTRY, unfortunately there's an awful lot of them 17,2 million at the last count.

Nor is america alone in having only hollywood history, that unfortunately what we get as well, most people know far more about the american civil war than the english one, in the fact they know that you had one and it was vaguely about slavery, the intricacies of the mason dixon line seem to have past them by

 

[pdg]

most people know far more about the american civil war than the english one

Which English one?

We've had a few...

I do remember once being corrected when I mentioned the wars of the roses - "don't you mean war of the ring mate, that film with the wizard and stuff?"

I honestly had no answer on either a historical or literary level.

 

[jobo]

Which English one?

We've had a few...

I do remember once being corrected when I mentioned the wars of the roses - "don't you mean war of the ring mate, that film with the wizard and stuff?"

I honestly had no answer on either a historical or literary level.

Which English one?

We've had a few...

I do remember once being corrected when I mentioned the wars of the roses - "don't you mean war of the ring mate, that film with the wizard and stuff?"

I honestly had no answer on either a historical or literary level.

the one that's called '' the english civil war in the history book, the others have been wars between royal houses, for the throne, which don't really fit the definition of a citizens war, royalty are not citizen or subjects by definition, but yea sort of we've had dozens

it was interesting with game of thrones to see how much was lifted straight from english history. if you watch that you have a good idea what happened though not at all in the correct order and no dragons

so next time someone says '' war of the roses'' WHAT just say '' game of thrones mate'' but don't tell them there were no dragons

 

[geezer]

Which English one? We've had a few....

...er I think he means that series of conflicts in the mid 17 Century between the Cavaliers and the roundheads?

Kinda important you know, what with with Charles I losing his head and all. If I remember vaguely back to my school days I think it was a pretty big step in increasing the powers of Parliament and in limiting the powers of the monarchy. Pretty important for us too, since we were still subjects of the Crown back then!

 

[jobo]

...er I think he means that series of conflicts in the mid 17 Century between the Cavaliers and the roundheads?

Kinda important you know, what with with Charles I losing his head and all. If I remember vaguely back to my school days I think it was a pretty big step in increasing the powers of Parliament and in limiting the powers of the monarchy. Pretty important for us too, since we were still subjects of the Crown back then!

` yea, but it work out so badly they decided to have a king back, after oliver cromwell named himself lord protector ( king in all but name) and banned christmas along with invading ireland and general being worse than the king they got rid of, a bit of a stuttering step on the road to democracy and one we still haven't recovered from

 

[JowGaWolf]

Honestly, I would guess that, in fact, only a minority of educated Americans believe in that nationalistic "American Exceptionalism" baloney

In all my life, I don't think I've personally met someone like this. The only time I hear this seems to come from people who become overly defensive about their country and it's almost always in the context of someone who has migrated from another country that expresses their opinion about the new country they live in, ".

Ironically those who actually say stuff like that are almost doing so that they will believe that nonsense. The only reason I'm saying this, because it's that same group who often have TONS of negative stuff to complain about when it comes to the government. So on one breath they say "American Exceptionalism" and then in the other "the complain about the government, taxes, regulations, education, health care, and a whole bunch of other things. If a country was truly Exceptional, then their wouldn't be much to complain about.

I definitely hear politicians say it more than every day Americans.

Oh, and BTW 'm always amused that you, and a lot of other people i run across from the UK, Canada and down under, actually have a better grip on how the US political and legal system works than a lot of my countrymen do

Funny you say this. Whenever I get into a debate about "the leaders that American's pick reflect the majority American View." I respond with, that's not a realistic view of the U.S. some people don't vote and most people don't know anything about politics other than Present and maybe Governor. State Reps and how our government actually works is not common knowledge with most Americans.

Too many Americans are afraid to talk about government, then the other half doesn't pay attention to anything the government does, until it's time to vote for a president, There is also that group who doesn't believe that their vote counts. Oh and then there's the conspiracy people. With all of the lack of government knowledge and the misinformation, it's amazing the US has a government at all.

Not sure if this happens anywhere else.lol

 

[JowGaWolf]

as a general rule, the less educated, the more disadvantaged a person is the more patriotic they are, the more blind they are to how badly they and their ancestor have been treated by this country and the more convinced that they live in the greatest country on earth they are.

This is correct and accurate for human leadership. Most harmful leaders want their voters to be uneducated, because it's easier to fool uneducated people. And by educated, I don't mean college vs no college education. By educated I mean people who do seek seek knowledge to help improve their understanding of the world or the society that they live in. A person can be a college graduate and still say and to the most ignorant things. Uneducated people are easy to mislead and get into line. You can just keep feeding them trash, they'll eat it, and will never question. Look at countries with dictators and you'll see the same pattern.

For me culturally, with the history of Slavery, my family told me stories, when I was a kid, about how slaves weren't allowed to read or learn anything beyond the task they had to do. An uneducated N-----r is and obedient N----r. So by default any politician that's not for educating people or make anti-education comments tend to raise my alarm flags.

Another good example is how the Taliban didn't want people to learn anything that wasn't taught specifically by the governing group. I tell people all the time, don't let anyone talk you (general) out of your education. Don't let them say (oh it's ok if you can't go to college, you don't need it.). Yet those same people who say that make sure their kids go to college.

 

[JowGaWolf]

most people know far more about the american civil war

yeah... you would think, but unfortunately there's a lot of misinterpretation about the U.S. Civil war and probably Civil war in general

For example: I've heard some outlandish stuff when it comes to US Civil War history. It's really scary. There's people here who say that slavery never happened and that some black people back then owned white slaves. Where I used to work, a Civil War actor said that the southern states where actually separate countries. So I was like WTF.... separate countries who voted for the same President and lived under the same national constitution. The sad part is that he was telling this to kids.

History and Geography are not American strong points. lol. If you ever get into a debate with an American in person. Just have that person name all 50 states. lol. One day someone told me there were 51 states and I almost thought I blacked out and missed some time. How in the world would I miss the 51st state joining the union of states. lol. Amercians.. We are a special breed. lol.

 

[jobo]

This is correct and accurate for human leadership. Most harmful leaders want their voters to be uneducated, because it's easier to fool uneducated people. And by educated, I don't mean college vs no college education. By educated I mean people who do seek seek knowledge to help improve their understanding of the world or the society that they live in. A person can be a college graduate and still say and to the most ignorant things. Uneducated people are easy to mislead and get into line. You can just keep feeding them trash, they'll eat it, and will never question. Look at countries with dictators and you'll see the same pattern.

For me culturally, with the history of Slavery, my family told me stories, when I was a kid, about how slaves weren't allowed to read or learn anything beyond the task they had to do. An uneducated N-----r is and obedient N----r. So by default any politician that's not for educating people or make anti-education comments tend to raise my alarm flags.

Another good example is how the Taliban didn't want people to learn anything that wasn't taught specifically by the governing group. I tell people all the time, don't let anyone talk you (general) out of your education. Don't let them say (oh it's ok if you can't go to college, you don't need it.). Yet those same people who say that make sure their kids go to college.

people see things through there own prism, the poor people in this country were treated dreadfully including being denied even a basic education, up until 1870 it was made compulsory in 1876 to try and stop child labour, which it didn't, this was only to the age of 10, after that you were on your own, unsurprisingly the literacy rates were abismal, meaning the poor stay poor and obviously the rich stayed rich, talk about gaming the system

 

[Buka]

Different countries teaching different versions of history....

Who would have ever thought dat?

 

[JowGaWolf]

the rich stayed rich, talk about gaming the system

ha ha ha..do you live in the US? This sounds soooooo familiar.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Different countries teaching different versions of history....

Who would have ever thought dat?

That's why I like history.. There are always different takes on it depending on which side is telling it.

 

[dvcochran]

lol.. Nothing like that is ever going to get passed. This isn't a liberal issue and I always chuckle when someone says "anti-gun, anti-weapon" laws is a liberal thing. If people think democrats don't own guns or won't shot anyone, then they are sadly mistaken There could be numerous reasons for having bills that are crazy sounding like this. I may be for political reasons as in. "I supported a bill that...." and the politician knows very well that it won't go anywhere, but the bill gives them a talking point and that's all they need.

The US. is so focused on "us vs them" mentality that people can't see straight. Too many people listening to toxic radio and news talk shows. If the radio or news station spends most of it's time complaining about stuff, every single day. Then you are probably being systematically brain washed. I had a Republican co-worker call say that democrats are evil. So I asked him if I was evil. lol. All this time he must have thought I was republican because he didn't have an answer for it. The reason he didn't have an answer for it is because we get along well. So I don't match the image he's made in his mind.

When you see stuff like this, then the best thing to do is to step back, not react and take a few moments to think and asking some simple questions like.

1. Does this make sense?
2. Is it real? Can I find this on an official government website?
3. Who is presenting, shared, or created the information? What is their agenda?
4. Has the news outlets gone crazy or do they not mention it? I'm talking about Real News and not Talk News. Talk News is toxic.
5. What are the facts? vs What are the Talking Points

So to help with this. Let's take a look at the bill as it's posted on a U.S. government website. Because it's definitely not what was posted on that martial arts website
Bill Tracking - 2020 session > Legislation

Because I know some of you won't go there and read it.
SENATE BILL NO. 64 Offered January 8, 2020 Prefiled November 21, 2019 A BILL to amend and reenact § 18.2-433.2 of the Code of Virginia, relating to paramilitary activities; penalty. ---------- Patron-- Lucas ---------- Referred to Committee for Courts of Justice ----------

Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia:

1. That § 18.2-433.2 of the Code of Virginia is amended and reenacted as follows:

§ 18.2-433.2. Paramilitary activity prohibited; penalty.

A person shall be is guilty of unlawful paramilitary activity, punishable as a Class 5 felony if he:

1. Teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive, or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that such training will be employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder; or

2. Assembles with one or more persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive, or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, intending to employ such training for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder; or

3. Assembles with one or more persons with the intent of intimidating any person or group of persons by drilling, parading, or marching with any firearm, any explosive or incendiary device, or any components or combination thereof.

2. That the provisions of this act may result in a net increase in periods of imprisonment or commitment. Pursuant to § 30-19.1:4 of the Code of Virginia, the estimated amount of the necessary appropriation cannot be determined for periods of imprisonment in state adult correctional facilities; therefore, Chapter 854 of the Acts of Assembly of 2019 requires the Virginia Criminal Sentencing Commission to assign a minimum fiscal impact of $50,000. Pursuant to § 30-19.1:4 of the Code of Virginia, the estimated amount of the necessary appropriation cannot be determined for periods of commitment to the custody of the Department of Juvenile Justice.


#1. You can only be guilty if you knowingly trained someone that you knew was was going to to harm someone. For example, I can't teach Jow Ga double daggers to someone that I know intends to use that skill set to intentionally cause harm in others as in an attack. If I know that a person wants to go shoot up a building then I can't and shouldn't be selling a gun to that person.

#2 I can't start a hate group and have the hate group meet with the purpose and intent to use the firearm training specifically against the group that I hate. So if my group is called "The He-Man Woman Haters Club" and we specifically train to do violence on Women, then I would be in legal trouble for doing so, as the training of violence isn't for protection.

#3. Assembles with one or more person with the intent of intimidating any person. Ole time favorite. KKK gathering together to burn a cross on someone's yard. Or a group of people getting together to intimidate anti-gun rights supporters. Such as being all for guns, then have a group of you and your friends go to the protest with your gun your back and in your holster. Protests usually get heated so as a safety concern it's better if no one is packing at this event. Because once that genie comes out of the bottle it's going to be a mess.

This doesn't make Law enforcement feel safer. So what happens if one or more person figure that they are going to "solve the problem today". Just saying, If gun right supporters can carry guns then so can everyone else.

Good post.
It is the very reason I said radical liberal(s). I can be quoted several times stating that I fully believe there are many good and fine democrats, just like I know there are mis-guided conservatives. The (D) party is so fractured and errantly guided right now, factually more than any other time in history.

It is the wording of the bill and ensuing intent that is concerning. It is typical legalese that can be manipulated, misconstrued, and used in other writings to weaken other laws and fundamental beliefs and freedoms.

 

[dvcochran]

well there's 300,000,000 of you, i have to generalise a bit, ` just done a post about how nationalism is the preserve of the poor and poorly educated IN THIS COUNTRY, unfortunately there's an awful lot of them 17,2 million at the last count.

Nor is america alone in having only hollywood history, that unfortunately what we get as well, most people know far more about the american civil war than the english one, in the fact they know that you had one and it was vaguely about slavery, the intricacies of the mason dixon line seem to have past them by

Ok, but the error in this comment is in your naming the Revolutionary war our Civil war. Very, very different wars.
Especially since both countries have a war known as the Civil war, I would encourage correcting this naming convention anytime the error surfaces to avoid the confusion.

 

[Gweilo]

our recent upheaval over brexit has generally been the disadvantaged blaming the EU for there miss fortune and pinning for the days of the british empire, whilst ignoring the fact that's its only the EU and their laws which stop them from being more neglected/ exploited more than they currently are

Maybe thats how you see it, but many others see it as a gradual strangling of true independance, nothing to do with our own glamourised historical past, I did history as an exam at school, many moons ago, only to find that most of it was biased from the British veiw, pushed into the education system by the so called elite of the time.and I am sure this happens in every country in the world, the only real similarities we have is amongst the political elite, commonsense is not common anymore.

 

[jobo]

Ok, but the error in this comment is in your naming the Revolutionary war our Civil war. Very, very different wars.
Especially since both countries have a war known as the Civil war, I would encourage correcting this naming convention anytime the error surfaces to avoid the confusion.

ive reference three seperate american wars on three separate occasions in three separate contexts im not mixing anything up

i do call it the war of independence, where you call it the revolutionary war, perhaps that's whats confusing you /?

 

[jobo]

Maybe thats how you see it, but many others see it as a gradual strangling of true independance, nothing to do with our own glamourised historical past, I did history as an exam at school, many moons ago, only to find that most of it was biased from the British veiw, pushed into the education system by the so called elite of the time.and I am sure this happens in every country in the world, the only real similarities we have is amongst the political elite, commonsense is not common anymore.

TRUE independence, we have never had TRUE independence, we are controlled by the banks, who control the money supply and if you control the money supply you control the government

iin the 70s we were being run by the IMF, before that we were being run as a satellite state of america, we had the power to make decisions, but only decision america agreed with

you need to go back to the thirties, as the last time this country was '' independent'' and then realize that democracy was suspended through most of the 1930s, that's right we used our independence to stop having an elected government, whilst criticizing the germans for doing much the same thing at much the same time for much the same reasons, that is democracy was dangerous to the state. there was a very good chance a communist government would be elected, so they just put a stop to that by canceling the whole concept of elected government

whilst noting we had only had ( true) democracy for twenty years or so, before they decided to cancel it.

The only way you can wish this country to be truly independent is if you have no idea of how it used its independence to abuse its own people last time it had it,,

we are( at least for the moment) still subject to the RULE of The ECHR, though i suspect that will soon become a point of contention to the nationalists, our government was frequently found to be breaching the human rights of its population before it was ''truly independent'' god knows what they will do now

 

[Gweilo]

whilst criticizing the germans for doing much the same thing

I dont remember us ethnically clensing millions of Jewish people, or perhaps in your opinion that was fake history too. I agree with you on how the British people where treated by the governments back then, and I agree Capitalism is not perfect, but you are incorrect on the independance quote, it was until a mr Tony lets shaft the electorate Blair, gave away too much power to the EU, which is controlled by big business. I am fully aware of what our ancestors did in the name of the empire, using our navy to make people comply, and its not domething I wish to happen again, what needs to happen is our parliment needs to decide on where our money goes, and not treat people like the miners as they did, once the backbone of the country, then basically dumped for cheaper imports, and nothing to replace the work apart from paper hat jobs (would you like fries with that), and no investment at all into these areas, left to rot basically, not just the miners though, look whats happened to our industries, steel, motors, shoe making,fishing, all put on hold for the better of other european countries, this is why most voted to leave.