verizon target of union love

Discussion in 'The Study' started by billc, Aug 16, 2011.

  1. billc

    billc Grandmaster

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    Messages:
    9,183
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    somewhere near Lake Michigan
    Hmmm...the unions involved in the strike are sending the workers back to work, without re-doing the contract. They say that they are going to continue to negotiate around more focused areas of the dispute, but something doesn't smell right. The article below points out that if the unions continue their strike, the unions will have to start paying strike pay to the strikers, which would cost the union millions of dollars. This money of course will be spent by the unions to buy votes for Obamas election, not to support the striking workers who pay union dues.

    http://biggovernment.com/laborunionreport/2011/08/20/breaking-verizon-strikers-head-back-to-work-without-new-agreement/

    O
    f course, helping the union leadership buy politicians to keep the leaderships money supply up is the purpose of unions, isn't it?
     
  2. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • Founding Member
    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Messages:
    47,249
    Likes Received:
    767
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Location:
    Land of the Free
    http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/08/21/1156204/Verizon-Employees-End-Strike

    http://www.securityweek.com/verizon-battles-network-sabotage-workers-strike-using-extreme-tactics

    Such a good father. Such good teaching he's giving her. Such a great roll model.

    http://www.securityweek.com/verizon-battles-network-sabotage-workers-strike-using-extreme-tactics

    Nothing makes me want to support these hard working under compensated folks more than hearing about how they put public safety for thousands at risk.


    Tell me again how I should sympathize with these people?
     
  3. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    15,072
    Likes Received:
    882
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    In Pain
    not with those people.

    As usual, because some people are twits (and CPS should have a talk with them) does not mean the whole thing is bad.
     
  4. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • Founding Member
    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Messages:
    47,249
    Likes Received:
    767
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Location:
    Land of the Free
    Let me see if I get this right.
    The Union is upset that their members are being asked to contribute to their own health care, like the majority of American workers do.
    They are also upset that Verizon wants to give deserving employees pay raises, rather than just an auto-bump for time-in regardless of if you're a top performer or the guy who finds a comfy spot to nap all day.

    Maybe the Union should think about this: If the company goes under because they played hardball, their 61,000 members will be out pounding the pavement looking for work in a dying industry during a economic down time, under 10-15% unemployment.

    It'll make it hard for those Union bosses to keep up the payments on their luxury homes, fancy cars and lavish lifestyle paid for by the union rank and file's dues.

    I still say, they can sod off.
     
  5. ETinCYQX

    ETinCYQX Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Gander
    You don't carry a sword?
     
  6. RandomPhantom700

    RandomPhantom700 Master of Arts

    Joined:
    May 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,583
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    Treasure Coast, FL
    And yet still no responses to my questions. Just more brandishing flaming pitchforks at favorable articles.
     
  7. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • Founding Member
    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Messages:
    47,249
    Likes Received:
    767
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Location:
    Land of the Free
    I don't need to. :D
     
  8. RandomPhantom700

    RandomPhantom700 Master of Arts

    Joined:
    May 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,583
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    Treasure Coast, FL
    Yeah, I mean, he's got the banhammer, what's he need a sword for? :rofl:
     
  9. Carol

    Carol Crazy like a...

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    20,311
    Likes Received:
    540
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Location:
    NH
    LOL!!

    Rock...Paper........BanHammer !!! :lol2:
     
  10. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • Founding Member
    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Messages:
    47,249
    Likes Received:
    767
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Location:
    Land of the Free
    [h=3]Labor Union Myths By Bob Hubbard[/h]
     
  11. RandomPhantom700

    RandomPhantom700 Master of Arts

    Joined:
    May 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,583
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    Treasure Coast, FL
    I've looked over some of the thread, not all of it. Frankly, I think it should be linked to any thread that mentions labor or union activities.

    I think the main disagreements though, can be boiled down to two issues: 1) Whether unions and corruption are inherently linked, and 2) whether collective bargaining and the rights guaranteed by the FLSA will remain after the elimination of worker's unions.

    I am of the camp that believes that not all unions need be corrupt, but acknowledge the risk and propensity for it, and that trying to eliminate unions threatens the very rights that so many use to justify calling unions outdated. I have no doubt that eliminating the right to collectively bargain (which is what youd' have to do in order to "kill unions") will put FLSA and OSHA in direct jeopardy.
     
  12. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • Founding Member
    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Messages:
    47,249
    Likes Received:
    767
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Location:
    Land of the Free
    Unions at one time were needed. In some places today, they still are. The problem with unions is they have forgotten their mission, and become corrupt, bloated, inefficient and cash-cows to the higher ups, while doing more to harm the workplace than help. Hardball tactics don't foster good relations. Holding lines on things the business needs to do to stay competitive only puts the business at risk of failure, taking the jobs with it. Do I want the right to collectively bargain eliminated? No. What I want is a level playing field, where both sides must play fair, where thugs are prosecuted, and where I can work for whomever I want. Right now, things are unbalanced, unions have way too many special privileges, and in my opinion don't 'return fair value' to the workforce.
     
  13. Darksoul

    Darksoul Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2004
    Messages:
    459
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Englewood, CO
    -Isn't dismantling Unions and what union members get simply a redistribution of wealth? I thought we were against that...

    (Sorry, I couldn't resist:)

    Andrew
     
  14. Empty Hands

    Empty Hands Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,269
    Likes Received:
    197
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Jupiter, FL
    It's a good point. It takes a special frame of mind for the same person to make the argument "we shouldn't raise taxes on rich people, they deserve what they earn and you're just jealous" and then later say "teachers (and other government workers or union workers) have better pay or benefits then others, **** them we should take that all away."

    Or for some of the very same people to argue that "$250,000 /yr really isn't that much money, that isn't rich, that's barely middle class" and then say later "teachers have an average pay of $60,000 /yr, that's living high on the hog, they are overpaid." Really, there are video clips of the very same people making the exact same pairs of arguments I've caricatured above.
     
  15. billc

    billc Grandmaster

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    Messages:
    9,183
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    somewhere near Lake Michigan
    Well, since no one said take it all away your point is not quite accurate. Some may say they are overpaid, but the key for me is when they make 60-90k a year, with 2 months off in the summer, at least, and two weeks at christmas, one week in the spring, all the federal holidays, plus several days a year where the kids are either off half the day or the whole day, and then they say they are not paid enough. This is on top of some really bad performance out of the kids in math and science. Many also have top notch pensions and medical benefits, until of course the unions became greedy and refused to help out these states that are so in the red they may never get back in the black. That is also on top of the tenure system where 2-3 years on the job they become virtually unfirable because the cost of firing them becomes prohibitive. I am a firm believer that you should be paid as much as you can get. However, when the people paying your salary are losing their jobs and their homes, you should probably be a little sympathetic to them when they suggest, hey, you might want to actually throw in a little more or at least a little toward your healthcare and retirement.

    I once saw a little article in a local paper by a teacher who made the case that with all the overtime they work, they are actually underpaid. She really weakened her case when she pointed out that she made 80k a year, but that was only from august to june. She had to make that money stretch through the summer, and that was really tough. I would like her to explain that math to someone making 80k a year who works the whole year, with 2 weeks of vacation, maybe christmas eve and christmas day off, and works just as many hours as she does, but all year round.

    I think the lack of sympathy shown to the taxpayers paying their salary is where a lot of the irritation with teachers and public employees comes from. It is not necessarily that they make 60k a year and people think they make too much. At least from what I hear and see.123
     

Share This Page