verizon target of union love

[billc]

Another example of unions going way to far and crossing over into criminal activity.

http://michellemalkin.com/2011/08/16/big-labor-watch-open-season-on-verizon/

Verizon Communications Inc. reported a dozen cases of sabotaged cable lines and warned of delays in repairs and customer service on the second day of a strike involving about 45,000 employees.
The telecommunications company said there have been 12 acts of sabotage to telephone lines and to Internet and television services in Massachusetts, Maryland, New Jersey, and New York since the strike began.
Fiber-optic lines were intentionally cut in Tewksbury and several other municipalities on the East Coast, the company said.
Stolen equipment in Cedar Grove, N.J., affected service to a police department, and a heat system was tampered with at a central office in Manhattan.
“This could be a dangerous situation if people need to reach fire, police, or emergency responders and can’t use their phone,’’ said Phil Santoro, a spokesman for Verizon.

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AND YET, THE TEA PARTY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE CALLED TERRORIST HOBBITS WHO HELD THE COUNTRY HOSTAGE. THE LAST TIME I LOOKED, THE TEA PARTY WAS A BUNCH OF DULL PEOPLE WHO LEFT PLACES CLEANER THAN WHEN THEY ARRIVED.

Meanwhile, across the Northeast, the desperation is clear from a message left on a phone hotline set up for members of a union chapter in Brooklyn. The voice of a representative encourages members to deal harshly with “managers and scabs.”
“It is open season. Follow them safely, but when you get to a location, torture them, torture them with chants and noise. Be so loud that they can’t concentrate and wish they never got out of bed,” says the recorded voice.
Another part of the message states:
“They are trying to break our union. Understand brothers and sisters, we can never let these [expletive] piece of [expletive] pigs break us. So, we are stepping up our efforts.”

The injunction prohibits a range of activities, some of which have reportedly been employed by various union picketers in efforts to obstruct or harass the company or its workers since the strike began more than a week ago.
Among the practices specifically forbidden under the court’s ruling: the throwing of feces.
…“Dropping, spreading, throwing, placing or otherwise causing nails, glass, cinder block, spikes, feces, clubs, rocks, screws, or puncture devices of any kind, or other object or debris to be thrown or strewn in, on, or about Verizon’s driveways, parking lots, entrances, exits, vehicles and adjoining roads to any of Verizon’s property or at any work site.”

 

[Bob Hubbard]

If they wanted my sympathy, they shouldn't have sabotaged the lines, degraded connections and whatnot.
No sympathy for the strikers here. None. At. All.

 

[Sukerkin]

Lordy how soon people forget.

I have said before that I assume that Trade Unions in America must be a different animal to the ones we had over here (deliberate past tense) but still, if you are a working man and you are anti-union then you want your head read. Once you've lost them, it'll take blood to get them back and we (the working class) have already paid that price once - it's insanity to have to pay it again.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The need for unions in a modern free society is on par with the need for arrows in a modern armoured unit.

Union membership in the US continues to decline.

Why is this good?
Because as their power continues to weaken, so will their ability to destroy entire industries, continue to degrade education systems, erode democracy and bloat costs.

Todays unions are little more than free money for the organizers, as workers in the collective are forced to 'pay to play', so that the organizers don't have to.

Like the appendix, they are of little use.

 

[Sukerkin]

Enjoy the slow but inexorable journey back to serfdom; except in the modern version you have to pay for your own food, clothes and accommodation in an economy where the prices are set by the 'haves'.

If your unions are malfunctioning, fix them. Destroying them is not the route to take if you want anyone not born into the wealthy classes to have some sort of impact on how their employers fleece them.

I have nothing more to say as, clearly, I am from a different world - that ocean is awful wide it seems and this is one of my 'trigger' topics.

The ghosts of my grandfathers are on their way to haunt your dreams .

 

[Big Don]

QFT:

The need for unions in a modern free society is on par with the need for arrows in a modern armoured unit.

Union membership in the US continues to decline.

Why is this good?
Because as their power continues to weaken, so will their ability to destroy entire industries, continue to degrade education systems, erode democracy and bloat costs.

Todays unions are little more than free money for the organizers, as workers in the collective are forced to 'pay to play', so that the organizers don't have to.

Like the appendix, they are of little use.

AMEN!
The protections that unions claim to provide workers are available to EVERY EMPLOYEE. There are these people, called attorneys... If your boss is screwing you, sue. Is your workplace unsafe? OSHA. Unions were necessary at one time, but, that time is long past. If you do not know your own rights, and you are not willing to stand up for them, maybe, just maybe, you don't deserve them...

 

[granfire]

The need for unions in a modern free society is on par with the need for arrows in a modern armoured unit.

Union membership in the US continues to decline.

Why is this good?
Because as their power continues to weaken, so will their ability to destroy entire industries, continue to degrade education systems, erode democracy and bloat costs.

Todays unions are little more than free money for the organizers, as workers in the collective are forced to 'pay to play', so that the organizers don't have to.

Like the appendix, they are of little use.

be that as it may, lose them and we are back at square one.
checks and balances...
you don't want the unions to dictate production, but you don't want to be without their muscle.


In any case, Verizon sucks....

 

[granfire]

QFT:
AMEN!
The protections that unions claim to provide workers are available to EVERY EMPLOYEE. There are these people, called attorneys... If your boss is screwing you, sue. Is your workplace unsafe? OSHA. Unions were necessary at one time, but, that time is long past. If you do not know your own rights, and you are not willing to stand up for them, maybe, just maybe, you don't deserve them...

you forget: the laws that protect employees are written in the blood of those who came before us. Union work got them passed.

Wisconsin has set precedent...I am sure many will follow...you might cheer it now, but expect results you won't like.

 

[Carol]

There are times when unions make good economic sense. When you have a bunch of people doing the same job with similar opportunities for advancement, it can make sense to be unionized. Many times these jobs (police, fire, etc) are also in the public sector, which means there is only one employer. This is NOT one of those times.

The need for a union in the telecom sector has come and gone. I was union myself for a brief time in the 1990s. Since then? Even with the layoffs, turbulence, and other suckage that I've had to weather in my career, I think I've still done a better job without the union than I would have been with it.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Suk, modern unions exchange 1 king for another. As a worker, I want to negotiate for myself. I want to set my own 'price'. I don't want to get told "Well, we don't have any work for you, but since you found some and didn't get it from us, you owe us $200,000 for violating your union laws. ' (happened)
As an employer, if one of my workers lays a hand on me, I want to fire his *** and sue him for the assault, have him arrested and jailed.
Not be required to give him a pay rise. (happened)

If you understood the history of unions in the US, if you saw the abuses, the damage, the problems, you'd see things differently I'm sure.

There was a time when they were needed.
There was a time when all men carried swords too.

Today, neither are needed.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Verizon's business is down. The economy is a mess. To stay competitive, they need to make cuts.
They want employees to pay for part of their health care plans, the cost of which is increasing.
The Union wants pay raises, full benis, and I think a puppy.

These aren't min-wage scraping by folks. You know, the guys on the help desk.
These are the field techs, making $20-40+ an hour with very nice benefit packages.

I've got no bloody sympathy for them at all. Maybe if I made as little as they would, if I was hurting that bad I would.

Oh wait....I make shitloads less than them, with much less in benis.
Nope, they can rot.

 

[elder999]

On the one hand, we have a story that attributes a variety of things to the union, but mentions no arrests or leads in the case of the vandalism.

I've dealt with the CWA-they are the union at the Universiy of California, and, when the UC had the contract for the lab, they tried organizing for the last few years of the contract. They didn't really do much good,and they didn't resort to strong-arm tactics. It was pretty much a given that one of the most pampered, well-paid and educated worforces in the world wouldn't care for organizing-or need to. If you feel you're well off enough without a union, that's good-just remember to thank the unions for it.

On the other hand, unions do good-and will continue to for as long as they can. Once they're gone, well, we'll see how pampered workers everywhere in the U.S. can feel.

 

[seasoned]

I have been on both sides of the union fence. It served a very important function when workers were mistreated and forced to work long hours with little pay, under less then admirable conditions. Now, unions are going the way of BIG government, less for the people they used to serve and more to do with self serving. Some restructuring is due for both.......

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Striking Verizon Workers To Lose Benefits If Strike Continues

Why should any company be forced to continue to spend money, pay wages and/or benefits for employees who are not working?
Outside of accepted out sicks, medical or family leaves or authorized vacations?

 

[Sukerkin]

I'm not taking part in this discussion, as I note above I'll just start ranting if I do .

But I was so moved to surprise by what Bob posted above that I had to comment as I was utterly bemused by the concept that a company continued to pay workers on strike. That's what union subs are supposed to fund when necessary - that's why it's called Strike Pay .

After reading the article, things were much clearer as it's not pay the company are withholding but health insurance. As to that conundrum, of the company having to pay certain insurances that are part of the contract of employment, well, I can see that both ways. In the main, I consider the company to be exerting undue pressure by threatening to withdraw said benefits (I'm surprised such strong-arm tactics are legal, then again, it's America, where the corporation rules, so I'm not really). Given that it is alleged that physical sabotage of company assets has occurred tho', it's sort of tit-for-tat.

Over here in Blighty it isn't an issue because the NHS exists, so, through our taxes, we all support our fellow workers a little bit when they strike (which they did far too often and for too little reason in the 70's).

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Suk, in the US a striking worker can take a bat to his bosses legs, inflict significant injury and walk away without penalty, claiming he was 'caught up in the emotion of things'.
Or rough up someone who wants to work -without- dealing with the union. Again, no 'crime', no 'time'.
Or sabotage his workplace, depriving the businesses customers of service (the people who allow the business to operate and the worker to be paid). Again, no worry of repercussion.
He gets to keep his job.
Maybe even get a pay rise too.

Court cases available on google, if interested.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

To those saying that unions are outdated because American workers have their own bargaining rights, I have a few questions.

1. Do you recognize the fact that those same bargaining rights were only obtained through the acts of workers' unions?

2. Do you recognize and agree that eliminating wokers unions (however you plan on going about doing that, I don't know) threatens the continued enforcement of those said bargaining rights?

3. Do you actually believe that once unions are eliminated and all employees are forced to rely on their own resources without pooling them (which is all a union, at its base, is), that corporate lobbyists will not immediately begin chipping away at worker's rights? That, somehow, those rights whose existence you rely on to claim that unions are outdated and unnecessary will continue to be infallible and untouchable?

It has been said time and again in these topics: corrupt, criminal union behavior is wrong, and entirely separate from whether unions themselves should exist or are bad. An acknowledgment of this distinction would be nice.

 

[billc]

Here is a new article about a non-union guy who was shot by a union guy. I didn't want to start another union thread so here it is:

http://bigjournalism.com/dloesch/2011/08/17/media-ignores-business-owner-shot-for-being-non-union/

John King didn’t plan on being an enemy of unions. In fact, he says all he’s ever wanted to do is work at something he loves doing and be successful at it—something that most normal Americans would call ‘The American Dream.’
[...]
Since he’s been in business, in addition to the legal battles and verbal abuse, King’s company has been vandalized and threatened on numerous occasions.
“Back then, it was nothing to have to regularly buy a new set of tires.” King said during a telephone interview on Tuesday. “The ice pick was the weapon of choice.”
Until Wednesday, the worst of the union attacks on King and his business came in the mid-eighties during the UAW strike at AP Parts. During a lull during the lengthy strike, King’s business was picketed by more than 50 IBEW picketers. This was at a time when he only had eight or nine employees. One of his employees, whose car was trashed by the union picketers, was also beaten up by IBEW thugs.

Unfortunately, the vandalism has never stopped. This year alone, he’s had to report three incidents of damage to police. This doesn’t include the incidents of stalking he and his men have to go through while they’re working.
In one incident earlier this year, rocks were thrown through the front windows of his shop, one of which had the word “kill” written on it.
Last Wednesday, however, the attacks on Mr. King became much more serious when he was awakened late in the evening at his home in Monroe County, Michigan and saw that the motion lights in his driveway had come on. When he looked out his front window, he saw a figure near his SUV and went outside.
As soon as he got outside his front door, King yelled at the individual who was crouched down by King’s vehicle. As soon as King yelled, the suspect stood and, without hesitation, fired a shot at Mr. King.
Luckily for King, as he yelled, he also stumbled. If it weren’t for that, however, John King’s injuries might have been much, much worse. In fact, he might have been killed.

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Again, the tea party supporters are constantly blamed for violence they don't commit and threats that they do not make. The people who blame the tea party supporters for violence that never happens, gladly back these unions who actually have a history of organized violence, some would say "terrorism" since the goal is to intimidate other people, not only for job actions, but for political power as well. And another thing, the politicians who profit from union money are constantly accusing conservatives of inciting violent behavior, only to find out the violent person was more likely motivated by the left, and they have blamed Rush, Sarah Palin etc...but, how many politicians condemn unions for their repeated violence?

 

[elder999]

Here is a new article about a non-union guy who was shot by a union guy. I?

No. It's an article about a non-union guy who was shot by person or persons unknown. There have been no arrests; there are no suspects. One can make all the inferences and assumptions they like, but-until there's an arrest, one cannot say with any certainty that Mr. King was "shot by a union guy," because it could have been a jealous husband-or a "conservative" attempting to incite violence.:lol:

Where the article says:

While neither the police, nor Mr. King can say which union was behind the attack, it is very clear by the word ’scab’ scrawled on his SUV that it the attack was union-related.

it isn't really clear at all. The vandalism and the shooting could easily be separate, coincidental events.

 

[billc]

Here is another video of union members going to the home of a business owner.

http://www.breitbart.tv/striking-ibew-workers-protest-at-verizon-execs-home-were-here-to-fight/

With the thug element already an element in this strike, this tactic of going to someones home, where their wife and children are in the middle of a potentially violent situation is going to end badly one day. Soon, it won't be enough to just use a bull horn to shout at them and disturb their neighbors, eventually, one or more of these goons is going to do something really stupid and someone is going to get seriously hurt or killed. What will that do to the ability of unions to negotiate then. Where are the police. The thugs seem to be on the street, but wouldn't there be something that could be done to move them along?