Vegan musclebuilding? Is it possible?

Discussion in 'Health Tips for the Martial Artist' started by FrontKick-Jab-Punch, Mar 19, 2013.

  1. SahBumNimRush

    SahBumNimRush Master of Arts

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    For the sake of this being an interesting topic, I am attempting to move past the tone of this thread and continue putting information out here for everyone's benefit.

    "For athletes, 0.7 to 1 gram of protein per pound of lean muscle is optimal for increasing strength and size. For example, if you weigh 180lb and have ten percent bodyfat, then you should shoot for 150-160 grams of protein to build more muscle. If you want to maintain your size, then 100-120 will probably be sufficient. Next, vegans like anyone else need to load up on healthy sources of fat. Without enough fat in your diet, your skin will dry up, your energy will plummet, and you will look like death.

    Getting 20-30% of your calories from fat is a good way to go. Load up on healthy fats such as: flaxseed oil, olive oil, almonds, walnuts, almond butter, and avocadoes. Also, vegan diets are free of all saturated fats, which is great for the most part. However, some saturated fat is required for optimal health, so get some coconut oil or coconut milk in you diet as well.


    Finally, make sure that you eat a variety of food to get a full array of muscle building amino acids. Some examples of good combinations include: black beans and quinoa, lentils and brown rice, almond butter sandwich, Rice protein/soy milk shake, green peas and almonds. Have some veggie burgers and other fake meat products from time to time, but make sure that the majority of your diet comes from fresh organic food."

    ~Mike Mahler

    I know I keep referencing this guy, but he is one of my kettlebell heroes, who also happens to be BIG, STRONG, AND VEGAN. He has the academic credentials to back him, and puts out a lot of great information to the public.

    http://www.grapplearts.com/Blog/2012/04/getting-big-and-strong-on-a-vegan-diet/

    He also posts sample recipes and meals for "hard training athletes"

    http://www.mikemahler.com/online-library/articles/nutrition-programs/power-vegan-meals.html

    Dr. Carlon M. Colker is another person who I puts out a great deal of material on the matter, that you may want to look at.

    http://peakwellness.com/about/about.htm

    As for me, personally, I grew up on an old school/non-commercial (i.e. free range, grass fed beef, no drugs/hormones etc) beef cattle farm. I like meat, my body, my choice.
     
  2. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Nope...doesn't count...now if it where a Holiday Inn Express :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  3. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    Mr. Greenstein passed away in 1977. I met him when I was 11, in 1971.

    And the data seems to support some sort of vegetarian lifestyle extending lifespan, as long one isn't a vegetarian alcoholic, or vegetarian smoker, or vegetarian couch-potato, or some combination thereof.
     
  4. crushing

    crushing Grandmaster

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    The more recent studies started taking in to account other lifestyle choices of those that consumed meat, or didn't differentiate meat from processed meat products. With the recent studies meat was not found to be associated with mortality. So, omnivores that aren't alcoholics, smokers, or couch-potatoes or some combination thereof can lead just as long and healthy lives as vegetarians that also don't engage in those more risky behaviors.
    :)

    http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/ejcn201359a.html

    That said, I can understand and appreciate why some people may have moral or philosophical reasons to not eat meat. More power to them and more bacon for me. ;)
     
  5. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    So let me get this straight....if I'm a alcoholics, smokers, couch-potato...what I eat does not matter .... and therefore you're saying I need to change my lifestyle...... there goes my evening at home... DANG!!!! :disgust: :uhyeah:
     
  6. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Depends upon your goals, Xue. If you're interested in being an obese lump of goo, then I'd say drinking, smoking and eating to excess are the way to go!

     
  7. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    That's not the nature of this board. Your question, given your requirements, might have been better asked elsewhere. Different spaces and all that.

    You should know where to find the information you require, then.
     
  8. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    This sounds like nonsense to me.
     
  9. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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  10. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    I went to his site and also used Google but couldn't find his academic credentials. What you quoted above seemed fairly reasonable, though I don't know where the specific numbers come from. What is his academic background?
     
  11. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    A vegetarian diet is so often calorie-restricted, and the data on that though far from clear is promising for longevity. Of course avoiding red meats and high fat content also is known to help, but my suspicion is that the calorie restriction plays the major part in its well-established health benefits. Just a hunch. In any event vegetarians-by-choice are such a self-selected group that it's hard to study the effects well; and the study of (near)-vegetarians-by-necessity, in poor countries, has made it clear that the introduction of meat has clear benefits statistically in such cases.
     
  12. SahBumNimRush

    SahBumNimRush Master of Arts

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    Actually, I never attempted to give any type of impression, my profile here on MT, is quite clear: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/member.php/21428-SahBumNimRush

    Also, to be clear, I have physician status in the state where I practice.
     
  13. SahBumNimRush

    SahBumNimRush Master of Arts

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    http://instituteofhormonalbalance.com/WellnessServices/AthleticPerformance/tabid/61/Default.aspx

    If we are speaking about someone who trains frequently and heavily, many hormone levels in the body decrease during exercise. Combine the slowed production with insufficient dietary needs of the building blocks of these hormones, it can lead to less than optimal results; both in performance and body composition.

    "Hormonal imbalance can present with multiple complaints like: hot flashes, irritability, foggy thinking, weight gain (increase in % body fat), weight loss (incapable of adding lean mass), insomnia, gut disturbances, and fatigue... " Dr. Edwin Lee, MD
     
  14. SahBumNimRush

    SahBumNimRush Master of Arts

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    I will admit that this is not my realm of expertise, but here are some considerations to think about.

    Zinc is an essential in the production of Testosterone. Testosterone is a hormone responsible for, among other things, muscle development. Approximately 25% the Zinc in the U.S. diet comes from Beef. While there are MANY sources (beans, whole grains, nuts, and seeds) of Zinc in plants, most plants high in Zinc also contain phytate. Phytate inhibits the absorption of both Zinc and Iron. Therefore, many plant sources of Zinc are not bioavailable (i.e. you can't digest/absorb the Zinc).

    This is why many Vegan athletes supplement their diet with Zinc.
     
  15. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    But there are vegetarian diets that are not calorie restrictive at all and they are showing some rather interesting health benefits

    Professionals (Experts) to check on the topic

    T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D.
    Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr., M.D.
    Neal Barnard, M.D.
    Junshi Chen, Ph.D.
    Connie B. Diekman, MEd, RD, FADA
    David Klurfeld, Ph.D.
    Matthew Lederman, M.D.,
    Alona Pulde, M.D.
    Doug Lisle, Ph.D.
    Terry Mason, M.D.
    John McDougall, M.D.
    Pam Popper, N.D.
    Joel Fuhrman, MD

    Film to check
    Forks Over Knives
     
  16. SahBumNimRush

    SahBumNimRush Master of Arts

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  17. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    I don't doubt that--avoiding red meat can be a clear benefit already. But I do think that as one looks at the national statistics, the relative sparsity of fat vegetarians is a big part of what's going on here from a public health perspective. Again, that's just my opinion.
     
  18. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    I have actually been following his diet, well mostly following his diet. I still eat a little meat from time to time (which he does say is OK), but I have to say I do feel better, I have more energy, I am losing weight and even my knees feel better. I have decreased dairy, almost eliminated it, and increased vegetables, and especially legumes.
     
  19. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    There was a study done in the 70s that Dr Furhman uses to show the health benefits of a diet that is higher in Micronutrients than Macronutrients. And the study showed that populations whose diets were higher in Micronutrients had lower incidents of heart disease, stroke, cancer, Parkinson etc.

    He also says that it would be very hard to do this study today due to the spread, globally, of fast food and processed food. Basically it appears that diets, globally are getting worse.
     
  20. Sukerkin

    Sukerkin Have the courage to speak softly

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    Reducing dairy! What a preposterous idea and I am against it! :lol:.

    Because I am a contrary sort of fellow at times, I am now going out to buy some cheese - Cathedral City mature cheddar I reckon ... http://www.cathedralcity.co.uk/products/family-favourites.aspx

    Or maybe some from the local butchers ... and get some bacon whilst I am there (tho' maybe not as I am making a lamb jalfrezi tonight) :p.123
     

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