US Draft

[OUMoose]

Asking a person from Iraq/Bosnia 10 years from now is going to be the real test of whether it was for the best or not. Asking people 'how is the move going' in the middle of it will illicit a different response than after all the boxes are unpacked and the dust has settled. Stress can really skew perspectives. Things are in an upheaval. Even the good commentary is not to be totally believed because tomorrow, the same person might be 'down with Bush'ing all over because soldiers were doing a sweep through his neighborhood and he is upset at the disruption....

True. Very true. My only hope is that the upheaval ends sometime. Unfortunately that can't be decided by just one side.

 

[Phoenix44]

There is one point of contention that we are overlooking. This is addressed to both pro and con. It's not just 9/11. There were many incidents prior to 9/11. The WTC was hit in 91 I believe. The navy ship that was attacked was prior to 9/11. The embassy attack that killed all those marines was prior to 9/11.

This is true...these were all Al Qaeda attacks. One problem: Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 or Al Qaeda (until now), and there was no Iraqi state sponsored terrorism against the US since the early 90s. Want to know why? That's because the US bombed the Iraqi Intelligence Service headquarters after we discovered a plot to kill our president. Iraq got the message.

Al Qaeda was based in Afghanistan, which we rightfully attacked after 9/11, but Bush began changing his focus to Iraq a month or two after we entered Afghanistan. In fact, the Bush administraton began planning its Iraq program even before Bush was inaugurated. He pulled out of Afghanistan prematurely, allowing Bin Laden and Al Qaeda to regroup.

Attacking Iraq after 9/11 made as much sense as would, let's say, bombing Canada after Pearl Harbor.

Not to mention the fact that the majority of the 9/11 conspirators were Saudi...but then, the Saudis are exempt, because Bush is a lifelong friend of the Sauds.

 

[loki09789]

I don't know why the insistence that we are no longer in Afg. We still have operations and assets there. We are still doing humanitarian operations there.

On a humorous note, if you are going to try and wage war on more than one country in the middle east, heck make it a one stop shopping spree for supplies and logistics.... get off the plain and head north. Those passengers with orders for Iraq please follow the yellow line to the left for loading and unloading of passengers and equiptment.... if you are holding orders for Afg. please follow the red line to the right for the loading and unloading of passengers and equiptment.... reminds me of the "AIRPLANE" movie schtick.

"NO, the JUST war is the red line to the RIGHT"
"NO, the JUST war is the yellow line to the LEFT"

"Well, maybe if you weren't wearing the stained dress from our failed trist you MIGHT just see that you are mistaken and the JUST war is...."

 

[OULobo]

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2004/05-31-2004/insider/draft.htm

 

[OUMoose]

"The proposal, which the agency’s acting Director Lewis Brodsky presented to senior Pentagon officials just before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, also seeks to extend the age of draft registration to 34 years old, up from 25."

Great. So are they going to put in stipulations for parents? Grad students? People with key skills that we need stateside? My opinion of this idea gets worse everytime I read something new.

 

[oldnewbie]

I don't think we are going to need a draft, if my recent experiences with High School are any example.

Last year, my son's High School started it's first ROTC program. They expected 50-75 kids to join (out of approx 1,000) They got 144 signed up and had to turn away others for lack of room in the program. (My son was one to join)
At the end of this year, the announced that they were gaining another instructor, and could expand. They have over 250 signed up before summer break. Most of the seniors in the program enlisted before school was over.

After speaking with the Master Sargent, he informed me that this was similar in other High Schools around the area.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I don't think we are going to need a draft, if my recent experiences with High School are any example.

Last year, my son's High School started it's first ROTC program. They expected 50-75 kids to join (out of approx 1,000) They got 144 signed up and had to turn away others for lack of room in the program. (My son was one to join)
At the end of this year, the announced that they were gaining another instructor, and could expand. They have over 250 signed up before summer break. Most of the seniors in the program enlisted before school was over.

After speaking with the Master Sargent, he informed me that this was similar in other High Schools around the area.

I have some friends of friends who are in their early twenties who are either Reserve or college and looking at reserve or enlisting after school or some even during school.

A friend of mine who is an Officer in the Naval Reserve is also a Chaplain. She is headed out the first of July for she signed up to go active. She will be stationed in the Indian Ocean area, for about a year.

I agree there are many who will or have plans to sign up.

:asian:

 

[Phoenix44]

Citizens are involved in the political process: Vote, lobby and call/write your politicians. As far as I know no one in the Bush admin has been censoring/blocking any of these things.

Yes of course we can vote. UNLESS Diebold promises to "deliver the votes to the President in November" with paperless, tamper-prone voting machines...in which case our votes may not matter.

Of course we can call/write our representatives with our views on the issues. UNLESS we AND our representatives are lied to about the facts, in which case we can't offer an educated viewpoint. Or if, for instance, our elected administrators refuse to testify in public under oath about the facts, because then we can't learn what the facts are.

There's also the pesky issue of secret, no bid contracts which might illegally involve the influence of our elected officials, which make the ordinary citizen superfluous.

There's no question, political activism is important, but let's not be naive.

 

[TigerWoman]

Of course we can call/write our representatives with our views on the issues. UNLESS we AND our representatives are lied to about the facts, in which case we can't offer an educated viewpoint. Or if, for instance, our elected administrators refuse to testify in public under oath about the facts, because then we can't learn what the facts are.

There's no question, political activism is important, but let's not be naive.

Well, I called my state representative, he didn't get back to me, he did a news spot on a Minneapolis TV station. He says there is "no support for a draft so it won't go anywhere" but my take is, that is the PRESENT position, he is Republican by the way. I also emailed CNN, and the Minneapolis Star Tribune and our town's newspaper. I emailed my senator, no response but on his board the draft is a "hot topic". Haven't hear anything in the news and no response from any of them to me except one state rep.

No representative has addressed the fact that the budget for Selective Services has increased to 28 million dollars (on their webside under Perfect Plan) and has a deadline for Mar. 31, 2005 to be totally READY FOR A DRAFT. And it can be implemented I believe in 95 days. Why has it increased from a $240,000 in 2002 (not exact figure-from memory) to a 28 MILLION dollar budget in 2004? Why has Selective Service posted the draft board positions on the net and then have it taken it off so suddenly when it got noticed. The elections. What do they expect to happen in Mar. '05. Pretty strong possibility, the draft, I would think, that's why they allocated the funds. And alot of people are going to be on a government payroll doing what? These are all the questions I have.

Bush keeps the war going, and Kerry has said that we need more troops over there, so it doesn't matter who is elected, on this aspect the war machine will be fed.

There is the other side of this "draft talk" in that it's pre-conditioning to adjust the public to a draft. Slowly after the election, leaking more and more till people start to debate it. And then the "crisis" will be escalated and "patriotic duty" will be the only thing heard from the media. Maybe, I'm pessimistic but, if the war continues to stretch our armed forces thin, it could happen. I can only pray, that it doesn't.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Lookin' like time to dig out the old records...Country Joe and the Fish....the Airplane's "Volunteers"...."Alice's Restaurant..." poor old Phil Ochs' "I Ain't A-Marchin' Anymore..." "Universal Soldier..." "WAR!! What is it good for?"

And the old movies..."Paths of Glory..." "Go Tell The Spartans..." "The Big Red One..."

All I ask is that Peter, Paul and Mary do NOT stage a comeback. And where's John Lennon when we need 'im?

But, service automatically guarantees citizenship. Do you want to know more?

 

[oldnewbie]

All I ask is that Peter, Paul and Mary do NOT stage a comeback.

I caught a few minutes of P,P,&M last night on PBS as I was surfing, they were preforming for children (and their parents)... Mary spoke to the crowd, said we need educate the children on peace..........Do I hear "comeback trail"....

 

[OUMoose]

*shudders*

It's a conspiracy I tell ya! All those old hippie singers must have political dirt on some key influential congressmen/senators. They are the ones pushing this draft, JUST so they can make a "retro" comback and sell more records! Summer of Love II, 2005! :uhyeah:

And they said pot-smokers were dumb... LOL :boing2:

 

[oldnewbie]

Well I guess it's now or never. They look like they won't make it to 2005....:wink2:

 

[Shu2jack]

I think the problem is this, both sides are right and wrong at the same time.

If we are going to fight and go to war, we need to go all out. If we are going for peace and want to talk and educate, we need to got all out.

Who are we fighting? A group of people? So why are we attacking a nation? By attacking a country we are creating terroists. For each person we kill, their friends and family will take up arms. They will continue to retaliate as long as we fight. The solution? If you are going to fight, then we need to wipe out every man, woman, and child. You need to destroy their factories, their hospitals, their homes, everything. Complete genocide. This way their will be no one left to be terroists. Otherwise, only attacking a country will only make things worse. For some reason, this sounds familiar. Two middle eastern nations fighting back and forth for years and it has yet to be solved. Not to mention that Europe will have something to say about it.

If we are going the peace route, then we need to take out our troops. We need to support their governement, gain their trust, and give them support (that they asked for) in hunting down terroist groups in their own country. We sure as hell wouldn't let a european countries' military force onto our soil to destroy areas and places of suspected terrioist hideouts. By not giving the people a visable reason to hate us, then it will be hard to continue the hate. It will take decades, perhaps centuries but the better off, more educated a people are, the more likly they are to avoid violence. The problem with this is (and I support the "war people" in this thought) how do you allow murderers and people who are planning to attack you to live?

Either way, education and helping or going to war and conducting military operations, is valid, but we must fully commit one way or another. It is hard to educate and gain trust when you are fighting someone and if you are going to fight someone, get the job done or else nothing will get done. If you are not willing to completely destroy the nation and it's people, then nothing will get done and violence will keep going back and forth. This is a hard pill to swallow. On the same token, if we go the peace route, then we will have to put up with terroist attacks for a long time and suffer them while things slow down over the decades. We will have to rely on intellegence to stop the threat before it happens. That is also a hard pill to swallow. Either way, we can't do it half-assed and sacrifice will be called for either way.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

More info on possible reinstatement of the draft.

http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a1115.htm

http://www.livejournal.com/users/lostsatyr/156786.html