US Draft

[7starmantis]

I found this on another board I was reading. I'm not convinced its even real, but it was interesting to read.

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=5834001&content_dir=ua_congressorg

Think its real? Think it will or even could happen? I'm not sure I even believe this is a real bill, but I thought it could bring up some interesting conversations.

Here is a link to the actual bills. http://www.hslda.org/Legislation/National/2003/S89/default.asp

It says in the congress article that everyone would be required to serve in some capacity. I just don't see that ever happening in America, do we really have the capacity to back up such a requirement, because I know a whole bunch of people who would do some heavy protesting.


Discuss,
7sm

 

[Cruentus]

Oh...its damn real. If they did it for Vietnam in very recent history, there is nothing stopping them from doing it again.

Perhaps this discussion belongs in the study?

:asian:

 

[OUMoose]

Actually I think there already is a discussion on it. If I stumble across it again, I'll link it here.

 

[Rick Wade]

It hasn't even been discussed in Congress. beside I don't want anyone in my military that doesn't want to be here.

V/R

 

[TigerWoman]

My husband found this discussion/forum:

publicenemy.com

also Dev Hardware Forums

"Reinstating The Military Draft"

if anyone knows how to do a link, please feel free to do so.

 

[Cryozombie]

Uh, is that supposed to be the rap group?

 

[TigerWoman]

http://www.publicenemy.com/pb/ >>EB Soldiers

That directs you to the right place - sorry for any inconvenience

There is an article by Marianne Means, syndicated columnist entitled "Reinstating military draft would equalize sharing the load in Iraq" at the top"

article came from:
seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/173848_means19.html

 

[OUMoose]

I keep hearing that used as the excuse for possible reinstatement, and I honestly don't understand. Is there already a draft for lower class only citizens that I don't know about? What do they base their classes on, honestly? I know it's suppsoed to be economic, but sometimes I think there's other factors at play.

Speaking as someone who's middle class, I have no desire to be in the military. Note, I didn't say the military is bad. As a matter of fact, I have alot of friends in the armed forces, and they have my full support, but it's just not the life for me. All of them come from middle class families, none of them are disfunctional or anything. Why did THEY join? because they wanted to. Some out of a feeling of loyalty, some out of interest, some felt the need to carry on their family legacy of military service. Sure, I can understand some social stratifcation as far as military service, as there are fewer job opportunities for the underprivledged, but I don't think it's as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Also, what's to be gained from shoving some middle class and "blue bloods" into the fray, other than the sharp increase in court marshalls due to being AWOL, body bags, and funeral services? Is that somehow going to create more jobs for those people considered "lower class" and get them up to "Middle Class"? but then what happens to the middle class? are they now Lower class? This whole caste system that still exists is absurd, but I'm getting way off topic, so I'll leave it for another thread.

My suggestion as an alternative to the draft:

(Editor's note: This is from a non-military mouth, so it could be inaccurate. That was your warning)

There has to be more than a few soldiers stuck behind a desk stateside or otherwise that are wanting to get back out in the field. Tech jobs, secretaries, and musicians are just some examples. Granted, not ALL of them are, but some are. Now, why doesn't the government reallocate THOSE people into the field and create those a civillian contractor jobs? They may not pay the best, but it's a job! I'm a computer geek by trade, and I'd definitely consider taking a government job like that if that soldier was needed to defend the country. So not only does that get well trained fighters into the field, instead of unwilling participants straight out of boot, it creates jobs and could possibly stimulate the economy!

/shrug. Just a thought some of my friends and myself kicked around one night. Please, flame away if you feel the need, but it is my opinion.

 

[Ping898]

Well, the whole lower class thing is that before with the draft if you were in college and making like a minimum of C's or something you didn't have to go, or least not right away, which meant if you couldn't afford college, i.e. typically the lower classes got hit the hardest.

As for rellocating soldiers and replacing with gov. contractors, they are doing that, least are by me. We are down to two soldiers where I work and one is out in about a month and the other guy is his replacement. Don't forget some of the soldiers working desk duty here are soldiers who have already had a tour or two in Iraq or Afghan and are on their year off of combat before going back again later.

Personally, I think we'll pull out before we ever have a draft, but I do think there is something to be said for having some sort of mandatory civil service or like volunteeer work like the peace corps for a few years for everyone. Don't think it'll happen while I am alive though so I am not holding my breathe.

 

[Rich Parsons]

In the past it has been up to 9 people to support one person on the front line.
I believe it is less now.

This includes doctors, nurses, transportation, etc, ..., .

My problem with the selective service was nto the military itself. It was the discrimination. If a male did not register he could not get financial aid for college and faced other problmes as well. No such requirement was there for females. Hence my opening statment. If there is to be a registration make it everyone from 18 and older. Those not fit for combat, either physical or mental or what have you, may and can serve in times of need in other positions that are required to keep the big green machine moving.

Personally, I agree with Mr. Wade. Yet, if it is to be implemented, it should not be based upon discrimanation of males only.

Just my opinion. :asian:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

See also: http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5726

 

[Rich Parsons]

See also: http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5726

Quoted from Budoseek by John Bennett:

Military Conscription in 2005
It's beginning to look like young people in the US will again be subject to military conspription in 2005.

There is pending legislation in the House and Senate. $28 million has been added to the 2004 Selective Service System budget. The pentagon has quietly begun filling the 10,350 draft board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots nationwide.

Higher education has been elimintated as a shelter. Students would only be able to postpone service until the end of their current semester.

Women are also subject to conscription under the new legislation.

I guess I should consider myself lucky that during my youth I always had the option of choosing whether or not to be a soldier. I'm 37 so I guess I'm too old to get drafted. My daughters aren't though.

I guess they have considered to bring women into the selective services.


:asian:

 

[TigerWoman]

Selective Service has the government line - don't worry-nothing has been decided but apparently has all their ducks in a row.

http://www.sss.gov/

----lists classifications, exemptions/deferments-a few but not college

----20 yr. olds or will be 20 in the year of the draft would be called first
then 22, 23, 24, 25

My son is 17, his team just won paintball at the national guard event locally
and has been soiicited and sent alot of material from all the branches lately.

My daughter just turned 20. She's been in two years of college.

I can't think this country would strip the colleges - not all of them are "upper class" but they are the future of the country.

 

[MA-Caver]

I found this on another board I was reading. I'm not convinced its even real, but it was interesting to read.
<snip> It says in the congress article that everyone would be required to serve in some capacity. I just don't see that ever happening in America, do we really have the capacity to back up such a requirement, because I know a whole bunch of people who would do some heavy protesting.
Discuss,
7sm

Everyone?? Heh, I'd like to see them try to draft this 40+yr. old, deaf in one ear, severe hearing loss in another (I use a hearing aid ok) guy like me... or about 20 million other deaf/hearing impaired individuals. What about blind, crippled, mentally ill?
Yes, yes I know I'm sure it was meant to read "everyone CAPABLE" of serving.
A new draft wouldn't be at all surprising. Hope Canada and Mexico are ready for a slight population increase.

 

[Phil Elmore]

Let's call "the draft" what it is -- conscription. Back when the British government used to do it, "press gangs" kidnapped able-bodied men and "pressed" them into service whether they liked it or not.

Conscriptoin is immoral. Your life does not belong to the State. It has not right to send you to die against your will. While you should want to defend your nation, any nation that cannot survive with a volunteer military does not deserve to survive.

 

[Taimishu]

Hmmm the draft may come back in the USA.


Just the oportunity we have been waiting for.





With all thier young men gone.







We can sneak in and get our COLONYS back ( evil chuckle) :mp5:




Seriously though you had better be wary as who knows what the government may do.
Wish they would bring the draft (conscription) back over here, it might make some of our youth wake up.

David

 

[OULobo]

I personally think the draft is a good idea, and that is not because I am past the max age. I was batting around the idea of voluntary service and would've gladly gone if I was drafted. I chose not to go first because of college, then because of my fiance (I wasn't about to leave her here alone with all your freaky-deakys), then because my knee made me unfit. I favor the notion that people have an obligation to their country, but I wouldn't vote for it. On principle I don't like the idea of forcing people into the military that don't want to be there. It makes for bad soldiers.

The military is often seen as a way to get from the lower classes to the middle classes with equal opportunity and hard work. My Dad even joined just to get out of his hometown. I don't see a need to change it.

If I'm not mistaken I thought I remember seeing a blurb in the nationals section of the local paper that mentioned that a bill to reinstate the draft was again shot down. The blurb mentioned that this type of bill comes to a vote about every two or three years, pushed by some senator that wants to use it as a platform. It never passes, but now the notion is back in people's minds so who knows what could happen. Especially if Dubya get a second chance in the office (God help us if that happens).

 

[loki09789]

I think some sort of two year "compulsory civic service" is a good thing. Instead of just military branches though, I think giving back by working with Americorp/Peace Corp or other civic service types of groups would help everyone involved.

Some of the commentary made here and by the general population comes from a lack of direct contact with the wider range of the world. Hands on experience with third world, poverty level families/communities or other areas that could benefit from helping hands can be just as enlightening as joining the military and leaving the comfort zone of the everyday.

The problem with stuff like this is that it is viewed as impressment and not character building and that governments generally are motivated by practical necessity and not personal growth and education when compulsory duty/draft issues are considered. Much like the Religion conversations have brought up, the large body decision makers are usually motivated more by a need to maintain the whole than by a desire to teach/develop the individual.

 

[7starmantis]

My problem with the two year "compulsory civic service" is that in a country loudly proclaiming freedom and individual rights, that would be a huge step backwards in my opinion for human or individual rights. We fought and died for the right to agree with things and the right to disagree, I don't see how "mandatory service" could be justified under the bill of rights.

I'm not sayign its a bad thing, I just dont see how it could be pulled off, legally.

7sm

 

[Phoenix44]

So what's the question? If we stay in Iraq, the US will HAVE TO reinstate the draft in order to maintain a steady supply of troops. I have no problem with the concept of "defending our country," but under no circumstances would I want me, my kids, or anyone else for that matter, putting themselves in harm's way for the sole purpose of fattening the wallets Cheney (Halliburton), Bush (Bush energy), and the rest of the corporate representatives in our govt. Our administration is using our young people and our tax money to run a personal little war so they can get rich.