US Draft

[tshadowchaser]

Been there done that.
Wasn't my idea but my uncle Sam though it would be a nice jesture if i helped my country a little.
I have to say that if it goes into effect once again that both men and women should have to register and both should serve in some capacity.
I also feel that if you are not registered (and are in the age group to do so) you should get no government help on anything, and face jail time. . You also would be in violation a law and those not of U.S. citizenship who are caught not registering should be deported

 

[Shu2jack]

I also feel that if you are not registered (and are in the age group to do so) you should get no government help on anything, and face jail time. .

I am 21 and I am not registered. I am fully aware that I may be denied government benifits, employment, finacial aid for my schooling, etc. and that is fine with me. Putting me in jail? Yes, I am such a criminal. I go to school, work a full time job, and run a MA club. I am a productive, tax paying member of our society and I put back into it by teaching the younger generation. I don't ask for nor receive any government aid. Plus the prisons are already crowded. Where would you put me? You are better off letting me work and produce on the home front.

Don't take me wrong. I have nothing against serving in the military. I almost registered myself my senior year of high school. The reason I did not join was because I decided I need to get a college education first and I also wanted to run a MA school so taking time off to join the military would put me behind in my plans. Also, I had a girlfriend at the time and I felt it would be unfair to her to leave her for that long.

The only way I would join the military now was to protect this country from invasion to protect those I love. In those cases, I do not need a draft to register. However, by registering, I can be sent to serve and die for a cause I do not believe in. Lets take the Iraq war for example....

 

[Tgace]

The only way I would join the military now was to protect this country from invasion to protect those I love. In those cases, I do not need a draft to register. However, by registering, I can be sent to serve and die for a cause I do not believe in. Lets take the Iraq war for example....

Would you have fought in WWII if you were of age then???

 

[Shu2jack]

Would you have fought in WWII if you were of age then???

After pearl harbor? Of course.

 

[Tgace]

I only ask because I dont believe that Invasion was necessarily an immediate worry. Many US citizens were against it then too (not a majority mind you) and thought that we should have stayed out of it. Even then why would you have fought Germany if Japan was responsible for Pearl?

 

[Shu2jack]

I only ask because I dont believe that Invasion was necessarily an immediate worry. Many US citizens were against it then too (not a majority mind you) and thought that we should have stayed out of it. Even then why would you have fought Germany if Japan was responsible for Pearl?

Never said I would've fought Germany. I hate the sea, but I probably would've went for the marines and hope to be stationed in the Pacific. Though I am not sure at the time if I would want to fight Germany. No, they did not invade us, but they were going for domination of at least Europe, which is what I would consider a serious threat to us anyway.

 

[TigerWoman]

Ch. 5 KSTP News tonight did a quick story on the draft. One House Representative Gutnecht said there was no support for the draft, that it won't go anywhere. I would tend to trust his opinion, for what's its worth.
But then its the government and there's politics to consider.

 

[Tgace]

Personally, I think every US citizen should be willing to serve their country in whatever need and am for draft registration should the need arise...Im against the draft for pure morale, motivation, combat effectiveness reasons. Better results out of volunteer soldiery. From all I hear, recruitment hasnt been hurting...expand the force and budget for more troops.

 

[Shu2jack]

Personally, I think every US citizen should be willing to serve their country in whatever need and am for draft registration should the need arise...Im against the draft for pure morale, motivation, combat effectiveness reasons

I am willing to serve my country, however I am against draft registration because now, unless you decide to flee the country because you are now a fugitive, you are stuck serveing in a war no matter the cause if our Congress decides to do a draft. I would much rather get the facts for the war and find out why we need the troops and what they will be doing before I commit myself to military service and possibly dieing or killing a human being. I am not so much worried about myself, but those who love and depend on me. That is no fair to them unless the situation requires it.

 

[OULobo]

Personally, I think every US citizen should be willing to serve their country in whatever need and am for draft registration should the need arise...

That is the problem, I don't trust the government to decide a viable need for the draft. They are too quick to push the button, without taking into account the long term effects. Without going too far off topic, this is the same administration that decided an anti-terrorism bill meant an anti-drug, anti-porn, anti-arab, bill that in their eyes has the ability to completly nullify our civil rights. Look what happened the last time we let them decide if we should go to war, they picked the easy target that turned out not to be so easy and tried to justify it with threats that no one can find and crimes that hardly call for war, not to mention they ignored a real national threat while it beefs up its nuclear arsenal. Trust these putzes with my life and duty, not likely.

 

[loki09789]

That is the problem, I don't trust the government to decide a viable need for the draft. They are too quick to push the button, without taking into account the long term effects.

And if the government is instituting a draft that could mean that the citizenry has proven itself to be untrustworthy - at least in the category of 'contributing back to the whole' - and the we have gone the way of 'half-American' as far as I am concerned. I know that we live by the constitution and bill of rights, but some of the spirit/assumption/hope in these documents and in the creators of them was that we would all come together and willingly support the group - not sit on our collective arses and claim "I am within my rights to do nothing - you can't make me."

There is a constant and shifting balance between individual civil rights/needs and the needs of the State from its individuals. I think being a participating member of this country, minimally, is voting, paying taxes and supporting your chosen causes. But that is like saying that it is good enough to be a "C" student in school, or that we should hover around the bottom of the scale.

I am not a fan of the draft - voluntary military is a more effective animal. Look at the volumes of volunteers and willing draftees during WWII vs. any action after that. We have become an individualistic nation and not a nation of individuals.

 

[OULobo]

And if the government is instituting a draft that could mean that the citizenry has proven itself to be untrustworthy. . .

It could or it could mean that the current administration is looking for a way to force people to justify their expensive toys and force people to play with them in the sand.

 

[Phoenix44]

And if the government is instituting a draft that could mean that the citizenry has proven itself to be untrustworthy

This administration has made it clear that it does not trust the citizenry. It lies, it hides the truth, it deceives, it keeps the citizens out of the political process.

And by the way, enlisting after WWII is not in the same category as enlisting for the Iraq war. We entered WWII after Pearl Harbor was attacked by the Japanese. People enlisted to defend our country.

Despite what the Bush administration wants you to believe (and that 70% of Americans actually do believe) Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. That was the work of Al Qaeda, based in Afghanistan. The Bush administration pulled our resources out of Afghanistan to go to war in Iraq, which was what Bush planned to do even before he was inaugurated. Al Qaeda was not in Iraq--until now. Our invasion has turned Iraq into a Terrorism Generator.

No wonder people are against the draft.

 

[loki09789]

This administration has made it clear that it does not trust the citizenry. It lies, it hides the truth, it deceives, it keeps the citizens out of the political process.

And by the way, enlisting after WWII is not in the same category as enlisting for the Iraq war. We entered WWII after Pearl Harbor was attacked by the Japanese. People enlisted to defend our country.

Despite what the Bush administration wants you to believe (and that 70% of Americans actually do believe) Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. That was the work of Al Qaeda, based in Afghanistan. The Bush administration pulled our resources out of Afghanistan to go to war in Iraq, which was what Bush planned to do even before he was inaugurated. Al Qaeda was not in Iraq--until now. Our invasion has turned Iraq into a Terrorism Generator.

No wonder people are against the draft.

Citizens are involved in the political process: Vote, lobby and call/write your politicians. As far as I know no one in the Bush admin has been censoring/blocking any of these things.

I think the problem is the 'no apology' approach that Bush takes makes him come off cocky. He makes executive decisions (but hasn't been charged with any violations of a political process so he must be working within the rules because congress would be like a school of frenzied sharks if he could be charged/impeached) w/o playing politics with congress. People (voters) tend to hate the politicians who play politics and wheel and deal - but when Bush does business claiming to be a "Washington Outsider" (not really accurate but sort of saying that he isn't trying to be a gamesman) he is a power monger.... I don't agree with everything he does, but I do like that he is not asking by your leave for every decision. He has to know that he is not winning many friends (at least his public relations people do) and he is still working the same way. That tells me he is doing things that he feels are right and not 'popular' at the expense of a chance at another term in office.... standing on principles.

There was a draft/selective service process during WWII as well if I remember correctly, the number of volunteers was such that it usually isn't even mentioned - and it would be inconsistent with the presentation of the "greatest generation" legacy that is promoted. What does that say about generations since? Are we 'smarter/wiser' or just more self involved and unwilling to come together because we are better informed by the media (which is partially motivated by profit when they use their own version of shock and awe imaging to trade increased subscriptions and Neilson ratings for really expensive advertising space)?

Have we inherited the post traumatic exhaustion of fighting and death that we don't see any honor in standing together for what is right in principle? There has been a lot of talk about the desensitising of people to violence because of violence in the media/entertainment. I would say another affect has been the vicarious trauma and learned fear as well. People have become more afraid (and I agree that by god it is a good thing to fear war so you make better decisions about whether to go or not) to the point of selling out integrity and principle (all packaged in the name of 'immoral political motivations' and "i will not support an unjust war" - War, like life is neither fair nor just) because of the pictures on TV as well.

No I don't think that the prioritizing of Iraq over Afg is right, but I do think that there are good reasons be be in both conflicts. SHussein screwed over and shrugged off his signed treaty agreed committments and got away with it for 11 years because the UN did not take him to task. If there are no weapons of mass destruction to be found, but they were there before (my own opinion but partially based on some of the data, along with some basic logic) then he had PLENTY of time to shuffle them off to other places through poorly controlled or totally uncontrolled borders, even could have sold them to fund the rebuilding of his new military.

The idea that there were no terrorists in Iraq until the US entered is conjecture and unproven. Even if it could be proven that they were there before US boots on the ground, was it a large enough threat to justify entry into Iraq? I don't think so. I do think there were other reasons to enter Iraq that had nothing to do with ALQ.

We are still involved in Afg, there are still military operations running there.

 

[OUMoose]

Draft ramping up for 2005

Glad I'm turning 27 this year... (wow, that's the first time i've heard myself say that).

 

[Cyrus]

I dissaprove heavily of it but, one person can't make all that much diffrence so what it comes down to is a little bit of forced forward in my plans because my friend and i already planned on moving to New Zealand someday or other and i already talked to my parents about it (even though i'm 19 and could leave if i wanted to) they said if the draft passes then here i come New Zealand because i won't stick around the u.s much longer to be forced into something that I have no intrest in at all. Plus I will finally get to change my name if i leave also because i won't change it unless my parents agree too. So if the draft passes and you feel the U.S just isn't the place for you my last name will probably be
Rysa by then so you can look me up the only thing we plan on doing there is training all day basically so whats another person or 10 or 20 more fun and experience.

 

[Disco]

Understand one MAJOR point of contention here. Regardless if you trust or don't trust the government/Bush and Co. or you attempt to make up your own personal justifications for not wanting to be a part of the collective.

"THIS COUNTRY WAS ATTACKED"........ 9/11 - New York City WTC - How many thousands of our country men/women were KILLED?

We are in a war unlike anything else we could possibly imagine. Remember the Japanese Kamikazi of WWII? Well they pale compared to the brainwashed zealots of the mid-east. Every country in the mid-east has a deep-rooted hatred for America and it's lifestyle. There are multiple generations and new one's being schooled, whose goal is death to our way of life. If the political process deems that a draft becomes a necessity, so be it. We are currently reaching for people in the reserves, nat'l guard and that well is about exhausted. Make no mistake about it, our nation is in peril. The mid-east has it's hands around our throats with oil pricing and this country runs on oil. So if we need to press people into service to keep our way of life, bring it on. We are not that far removed from WWII and Pearl Harbor. The WTC is our new Pearl Harbor. Even though this is a country of and for individuals, we have always managed to come together to protect and defend ourselves and neighbors. That's what makes us who we are as a country. If you happen to be one who is so opposed to this concept, then I wish you well in your new home. From my point of view, you are not welcomed here anylonger. You pay a dis-service to all those that have fought and died so you can have the chance to say you don't like it here.

With much respect and bowed head in prayer for all that are in the service of our country. May God Bless and keep you all safe, to return to those that love and respect you.

Mike Dunn :asian:

 

[Nightingale]

Personally, I'd like to see the military relax its guidelines over who can serve. Not everyone needs to be able to be in combat to be able to support our armed forces.

I was told I could not serve. I was looking into the military as a way to get some good legal experience after I finish law school. I'd go in as a JAG officer. However, I was told I can't serve. The reason: I get heartburn and take a pill every day. Apparently, taking medication daily is an automatic disqualification. No medical complications, just heartburn if I eat something spicy. So, I take a medication to be able to eat what I want. If I don't get my medication, I'm a little uncomfortable, but nothing that would be considered debilitating.

They said I could not serve, despite scoring damn near perfectly on the AFOQT (Air Force Officer Qualifying Test) simply because I swallow a damn pill every day. Their rationale: "we can't guarantee you'll alway have access to your medication." hmmph. Well, then, put me in a position where that CAN be guaranteed. There are plenty of JAG lawyers stationed stateside who would never have a problem picking up a prescription. I passed every single one of their tests with flying colors, including the physical fitness test, and they don't want me because I take heartburn medication. how completely stupid.

What about opening the military up to those who are physically disabled? Someone in a wheelchair is perfectly capable of answering a telephone, doing virtually any kind of desk job, acting as a lawyer, a doctor, or a nurse. Taking on disabled people who want to serve would free able-bodied folks for other positions or locations. No conscription necessary.

What about the people who have asthma? I'm sure there are many positions that are not overly physically straining. There's got to be something they can do to support the military.

Lets use the people who WANT to volunteer, in whatever capacity they are able, before we begin drafting those who do not want to serve.

 

[OULobo]

Understand one MAJOR point of contention here. Regardless if you trust or don't trust the government/Bush and Co. or you attempt to make up your own personal justifications for not wanting to be a part of the collective.

"THIS COUNTRY WAS ATTACKED"........ 9/11 - New York City WTC - How many thousands of our country men/women were KILLED?

We are in a war unlike anything else we could possibly imagine. Remember the Japanese Kamikazi of WWII? Well they pale compared to the brainwashed zealots of the mid-east. Every country in the mid-east has a deep-rooted hatred for America and it's lifestyle. There are multiple generations and new one's being schooled, whose goal is death to our way of life. If the political process deems that a draft becomes a necessity, so be it. We are currently reaching for people in the reserves, nat'l guard and that well is about exhausted. Make no mistake about it, our nation is in peril. The mid-east has it's hands around our throats with oil pricing and this country runs on oil. So if we need to press people into service to keep our way of life, bring it on. We are not that far removed from WWII and Pearl Harbor. The WTC is our new Pearl Harbor. Even though this is a country of and for individuals, we have always managed to come together to protect and defend ourselves and neighbors. That's what makes us who we are as a country. If you happen to be one who is so opposed to this concept, then I wish you well in your new home. From my point of view, you are not welcomed here anylonger. You pay a dis-service to all those that have fought and died so you can have the chance to say you don't like it here.

With much respect and bowed head in prayer for all that are in the service of our country. May God Bless and keep you all safe, to return to those that love and respect you.

Mike Dunn :asian:

I'll never agree that this country is in a war against terrorism. Currently, terrorist is a term used to label people an established government doesn't like for various and sundry reasons. Terrorists is currently a term used to describe people of action that are violently acting against our way of life. One man's terrorist is another's freedom-fighter and revolutionary. The attackers of the WTC were true terrorists and wars against them can only be waged either completely defensivly or in, according to most international laws, an illegal way. We cannot wage war on an idea, or the small, scattered and unidentifiable people that ascribe to it. We can only worsen the situation with widespread violence against entire nations of people of which only a small fraction are willing to partake in such action against the US. I would suggest education, examination and compromise, not just elimination and indiscriminate, sometimes arbitrary, military action. Blanket statements that lump the entire mid-east, with all its varied religions, governments, ideals and people as having a "deep-rooted hatred for America and it's lifestyle" is ludicrous. Secondly, the question is whether the people believe the "political process" is valid and untainted in such a way that it is making the choice of the people and not a few warmongering, profiteers with the power to overcome the will of the people by pressing into the draft into law. The peril to this nation is it's leaders using it's resources and young lives for personal gain and vendetta. IMHO 9/11 has no direct connection to Pearl Harbour at all. If I oppose the concept of going to war for some political big wig's wishes I will, and as it stands currently the majority of the people in this country agree. Until that changes this is still my home and I have as much right to live in it as anyone who disagrees with me, whether they think I am welcome or not.

 

[rmcrobertson]

"Make no mistake about it, our nation is in peril. The mid-east has it's hands around our throats with oil pricing and this country runs on oil. So if we need to press people into service to keep our way of life, bring it on."

Uh....well, it does have the advantage of being clear. It's not freedom, nor democracy, nor civil rights, nor our history, nor any of that silly stuff they taught me about back in school that is valuable about, "our way of life."

Sorry, dude. Somehow I am absolutely unwilling to go off and fight to preserve the government's and the people's right to waste resources like drunken sailors on leave in Manila.

And just FYI, you might consider the fact that democratic values do NOT involve running off and getting yourself killed for a not-very-bright President and a spineless Congress, who got us into this mess for reasons that--surprise, surprise!--turn out to be lies or mistakes.

Democratic values involve a well-educated, knowledgeable citizenry recognizing grim necessities when they arrive and taking on their responsibilites.

But by all means, let's give the likes of Dick Thornburgh the power to force kids into the military.

Hey, I've got a question: did ANY of these tub-thumpers in the White House serve in the military? And a worse question: did any of their opponents go? Kerrey, Gore, Kerry, Clark, Carter, McGovern....hey wait. Do I detect a pattern?