Efficient Vehicles

[KenpoTess]

Whatcha think?


Vehicles that run on alternative fuels such as Biodiesel are the most efficient in terms of mileage and exhaust emissions.

How can you switch over to Biodiesel from gasoline? Purchase a car with a diesel engine (see models below), and fill it with Biodiesel (modified vegetable oil). You can even make Biodiesel in your garage for around 50 cents a gallon.

Hybrid electric-gasoline cars are also efficient in regards to mileage.


E-Bikes are the most efficient vehicles for local trips (2-50 miles).

Full Article Here

 

[Ender]

Very interesting. Americans have long had an aversion to any type of diesel vehicles and have viewed diesel mainly for trucks. This may not be the total answer, but is definitely and step in the right direction.

 

[loki09789]

Very interesting. Americans have long had an aversion to any type of diesel vehicles and have viewed diesel mainly for trucks. This may not be the total answer, but is definitely and step in the right direction.

Diesel has been a real aversion because of the lack of 'instant gratification' of speed and response in older engines. They have come a long way since then, but the reputation is killing the diesel in terms of mainstream use.

Ford is converting their Escape (own one now, well the bank owns it - I am paying them for it) to a hybrid design and it is suppose to be really promising. Hybrids for the most part have looked/been kind of small and low power so have had a hard time breaking into the mainstream market, like diesels.

Hopefully the improvements will make the transition faster/easier.

 

[someguy]

There is a penalty for everything. Biodeisel is clean burning. Renewable. Cheaper.
There is only one problem with it. If every one uses it there won't be enough supply for the demand. To grow all of the vegtables you would have to have a gigantic amount of land dedicated to just that.
hybrid gas electric cars area great idea though. Hmm I wonder if a hybrid electric -biodeisel car would work to reduce the amount of stuff cultivated enough to make it work.

 

[loki09789]

There is a penalty for everything. Biodeisel is clean burning. Renewable. Cheaper.
There is only one problem with it. If every one uses it there won't be enough supply for the demand. To grow all of the vegtables you would have to have a gigantic amount of land dedicated to just that.
hybrid gas electric cars area great idea though. Hmm I wonder if a hybrid electric -biodeisel car would work to reduce the amount of stuff cultivated enough to make it work.

Actually the process of creating vegetable based diesel is pretty simple and usually comes from recycling frying oils that are being thrown out (McD's, BK's, pizza/sub joints......) so the supply issue might not be as big a deal now. It is a second use option for something that otherwise is waste.

I think the bigger problem is the competition threat that the OPEC/petroleum industry will try and block at every step. Imagine how expensive cooking oil (canola, peanut, ...) might be if the prices were market driven like the gas prices? Ouch!

 

[MA-Caver]

Well all of these ideas have merit and would do the country (and the rest of the world) a great deal of good. But until the Oil Cartels decide to stop making money off of their products the development is going to be slow. Ya'll know the rumors that abounded back in the 70's whenever someone came up with a better fuel running engine the oil companies bought the rights to it and surpressed it, keeping us on the gas run combustion engines.
With the soaring gas prices (a phrase we heard many times before) people are going to want these hybrid cars and anything else that can be done cheaper to keep us on the road(s).
The answers are there and have been around for years. But the oil companies aren't going to give up that easily.

 

[someguy]

Of course petroleum willl also still be needed like for making plastics and stuff.

 

[theletch1]

It was the fuel crunch of the 70s that perpetuated the popularity of small cars in the "muscle car" society of the US. Maybe this one will do the same for hybrids and alternate fuel vehicles. I don't really see folks giving up their vehicles for bikes or walking. Heck, I only live 15 miles from where I work and that's a bit of a jog to and from work every day, don't ya know. Getting to the nearest bus stop wouldn't work for me either as the public transit system has stopped running when I get off work. Speed and power aren't big sellers for me. I drive for a living so driving on my off time is kept to a minimum. Besides, 90 in a car is no where near as fun as 90 in an 18 wheeler. :uhyeah:

 

[RandomPhantom700]

I have what is certain to be a naive question, but I'll ask it anyway. Somebody mentioned that the oil companies would buy out any new alternative fuel source in order to keep us on gas. Now I'm sure that these companies are large enough, so if they bought the rights to them, why wouldn't they just expand to include the new fuel sources as part of what they offer? They'd still be making plenty of money off of the new fuel, right? Or is the gain from selling petroleum that much more profitable?

Alright, so the hybrids and biodiesel are much more efficient at burning fuel and mileage, these are very good things. But how are they on speed? I'm not being a speed-demon, I would just have great concern if a 20-minute drive to work on gasoline became a 2-hour drive or more on electric.

I'll read the article now.

 

[MA-Caver]

you can only go fast in an electric car if you get hit by a bolt of lighting... 1.21 gigawatts... ZOOOM! ....when the hell am I? (just kidding)
To my understanding electrics do make over 50 mph and can keep it up for a while...

 

[Phoenix44]

Somebody mentioned that the oil companies would buy out any new alternative fuel source in order to keep us on gas. Now I'm sure that these companies are large enough, so if they bought the rights to them, why wouldn't they just expand to include the new fuel sources as part of what they offer?

I'll tell you why: because these other sources are RENEWABLE, and anybody can create, use, or benefit from them. Fossil fuel is NON-RENEWABLE, and "ownership" is kept to a few multibillionaires. So if you control the oil, you can control money and policy.

If you want a beautiful illustration of this concept, read "Dune." Or for an even simpler example, just look at how Saudi Arabia is jerking us around, and influencing American policy by tightening or loosening the oil supply.

 

[TonyM.]

Research has uncovered Mr. Deisels' original plans for his compression fired engine. Turns out peanut oil was originally used. Mr. Deisel died in a mysterious plane crash and the idea of using vegetable oil was lost for a long time.

 

[loki09789]

Of course petroleum willl also still be needed like for making plastics and stuff.

that is another area where plant sources are coming into play. Discovery science channel on cable had an entire show about the plant based silica and such for plastics.

Right now all of this stuff is experimental and in the process of proving it's viability. Who knows what will be in the future.

I have a friend of mine who is trying to get a veg based diesel process at a manufacturing level in action. It is literally an experiment she keeps in her bathroom right now (so it isn't very far along yet.) but she has already been contacted by either NOCO or SHELL or somebody about purchasing her process. I don't know what the patent process/if possible applies here or not.

The big names already in the fossil fuel industry want to maintain control of that market regardless of what the source is.

 

[Andi]

Obviously the US approach to vehicles is much different to the European approach. I'm interested what the average engine is in a typical family size car in the US. Roughly? The article says

Diesel vehicles currently available in the U.S. are:
Cars

• Volkswagen Golf, Jetta, Jetta Wagon, New Beetle, Passat (2004)
• Mercedes E-320 Sedan (2004)

Is that it??? Surely not.

Diesel is getting increasingly popular over here, especially for fleet buyers, and hybrid technology is moving along as well. The government is promoting LPG dual fuel systems and offering grants to get them fitted. Works out quite a lot cheaper and there's little difference in performance (allegedly). Blair's new Rovers might be LPG dual fueled as well.

Then you've got people like MG who are making noises about an electric/petrol hybrid as a production vehicle at some point. I would have thought hybrids like this would be the ideal way forward rather than the purely electric route Honda have gone with the Insight (plus they didn't bother to design the exterior of that thing) although from what I've seen of it, it's not bad at all.

 

[Ender]

In Engineering school we designed and built a compressed air vehicle. It didn't go very fast,nor did it have much power. But it did get ya around.*shrug

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Random observations:

A recent Stratfor intelligence brief indicated that foreign expats who worked in the oil fields are leaving Saudi Arabia because of terrorist attacks. This will have long term effects on Saudi production. The Saudi's won't be able to increase production without the expats. Even though they have plenty of oil in the ground, they won't be able to get it. This might spur the development of renewables as western countries try and make good on the loss.

The military is investigating the concept of hybrids, intrigued as they are by the potential for relieving the logistical burden on the supply chain of any unit. This could spur development of these vehicles in the civilian sector.

Cars like the "Smart Car" are being introduced to the U.S. from Europe. This car is not a hybrid, but does get sixty miles to the gallon.

Recent developments in photovoltaic cells have taken them to fifty percent efficiency. These could augment any hybrid vehicle.

Fuel cell development is still on going. If an infrastructure can be developed, cars that run on hydrogen are potentially feasable.

Other sources of fuel are available. There are millions of tons of methane ice off the coast, if we can figure out ways to tap into it.

Regards,


Steve

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I think that, although I am getting just as nervous about the money I am spending as the gas prices rise, I am in another way delighted. This price raise seems to be getting many more "average Americans" to be thinking about alternatives to petroleum-based fuels. And high time. "Nonrenewable resource" doesn't seem to get many people thinking into the future. But "Oh, crap, it was $50 to fill up the Excursion!" does.

And while we in the USA are wringing our hands over the price of fuel, it has always been significantly more expensive in virtually every other country on the planet. Why is our wealthy nation getting such a deal on fuel? Even now, with gas at roughly $2.00/gallon. It's been over $2.00/liter in other countries for quite a while.

Hurrah for discussions of renewable energy sources and biodiesels! And hopefully we'll see some more intelligent urban/suburban planning, so people start to live in walkable neighborhoods or mini-neighborhoods, rather than in big houses all 300 ft from each other for miles and miles. If we all walked more to parks, to the local store, to what have you - and our neighborhoods were structured so that that was an option for more people - not only would we save our fuel for the cars, but hopefully it could also help address the national crisis in obesity and lousy fitness.

 

[MartialArtist68]

How can we move to more efficient modes of transportation when our own president is an oiler? A good point was made that the oil companies WILL do everything in their power to kill off projects that threaten their business.


As of right now, the best we can all do is ride our bikes everywhere. I ride ten miles (at least) to martial arts training classes and work (I'm lucky enough to work for my instructors). Not to brag, though.

Ultimately it comes down to one key factor: MONEY. Developers/engineers use it to fund their products, oil companies use it to destroy them.

Cheers,
PK

 

[jeffkyle]

you can only go fast in an electric car if you get hit by a bolt of lighting... 1.21 gigawatts... ZOOOM! ....when the hell am I? (just kidding)
To my understanding electrics do make over 50 mph and can keep it up for a while...

That was funny! Thanks for the laugh!