Unconventional weapons

Monkey Turned Wolf

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I'm having trouble imagining an attack that leaves me enough time to remove my belt. I suppose there are some belts that might be easier to remove, and some pants that have large enough belt loops to have no chance of snagging, but I'd expect most folks would end up with their belt half-off about the time they needed it...at best. And anyone who has a wide waist is likely to have to do the rest of their defense without taking a step, as their pants become leg shackles.
I see it more as a situation where you know someone is in your house/school/some other place, so you take it off while waiting in case they stumble on you (assuming you have no better weapons nearby and don't want to risk finding one). Personally I would prefer to have a knife or gun nearby but I guess that's not always possible.

Or you happen to have rope on you, then you can use the belt techniques with rope.
 

Gerry Seymour

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I see it more as a situation where you know someone is in your house/school/some other place, so you take it off while waiting in case they stumble on you (assuming you have no better weapons nearby and don't want to risk finding one). Personally I would prefer to have a knife or gun nearby but I guess that's not always possible.

Or you happen to have rope on you, then you can use the belt techniques with rope.
That's reasonable.
 

Russian Whips

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In Russia belt, espetially military or navy one with square brass buckle used to be very common unconventional weapon of the streets. Sometimes the buckle would be made heavier by melting some lead into it
 

Kiki

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The Peaky Blindes were famous for their use of belts as weapons too.
 

frank raud

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I'm having trouble imagining an attack that leaves me enough time to remove my belt. I suppose there are some belts that might be easier to remove, and some pants that have large enough belt loops to have no chance of snagging, but I'd expect most folks would end up with their belt half-off about the time they needed it...at best. And anyone who has a wide waist is likely to have to do the rest of their defense without taking a step, as their pants become leg shackles.
"Some" people who, let's say expect to be in an altercation, only put their belt through two loops on their pants to make it faster to remove. I'm told the US military khaki webbing belt makes a great flail.
 

Kong Soo Do

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It has been several years since I gave up carrying any of those categories on a regular basis. For those of us who travel by plane, they get taken away from us if we try to carry them on, and a weapon you think you have with you but don't (because you couldn't take it on the plane) is worse than the weapon you don't even think about.

So, I focus on learning and teaching principles that can be applied with what can be found - as you suggest, getting good at finding weapons in what's around you.

No disrespect intended, I can't agree with your post. Having a Sharpie magic marker is perfectly acceptable on an airplane. So is having a pocket of loose change. If one is adept with the cane as a defensive weapon then you can carry one on a plane as well. For improvised weapons we need to collectively think outside the box. You can wear a belt onto an airplane as well. Or a shoe or a magazine. Any of which can be used as an improvised weapon.

Are they as effective as having an edged weapon, firearm, or throwing star? Probably not, but that's why they are improvised to the situation. And since they are likely to fall into the category of use in a 'sterile' environment there is an element of surprise that could work in your favor.
 

Dirty Dog

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It has been several years since I gave up carrying any of those categories on a regular basis. For those of us who travel by plane, they get taken away from us if we try to carry them on, and a weapon you think you have with you but don't (because you couldn't take it on the plane) is worse than the weapon you don't even think about.

So, I focus on learning and teaching principles that can be applied with what can be found - as you suggest, getting good at finding weapons in what's around you.

Can't really agree with the first part.
You can carry a pen on a plane. I carry one of those indestructible metal pens all the time. I actually have one that you twist to write (and it writes very nicely), but the clicker on top is OC spray. You can carry a cane. When traveling domestic, my gun goes in the checked bag. I put it back on in the bathroom after picking up our bags.
 

Tez3

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Now that wasn't meant to happen, double post........ :oops:
 

Gerry Seymour

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It has been several years since I gave up carrying any of those categories on a regular basis. For those of us who travel by plane, they get taken away from us if we try to carry them on, and a weapon you think you have with you but don't (because you couldn't take it on the plane) is worse than the weapon you don't even think about.

So, I focus on learning and teaching principles that can be applied with what can be found - as you suggest, getting good at finding weapons in what's around you.
@Kong Soo Do - what, precisely are you disagreeing with? That weapons will be taken away by TSA when I'm traveling? That thinking you have a weapon you don't have with you is bad?

I can't see what's to disagree with in this post, especially since I was agreeing with something you said about using what's around you.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Can't really agree with the first part.
You can carry a pen on a plane. I carry one of those indestructible metal pens all the time. I actually have one that you twist to write (and it writes very nicely), but the clicker on top is OC spray. You can carry a cane. When traveling domestic, my gun goes in the checked bag. I put it back on in the bathroom after picking up our bags.
I do sometimes carry a cane, and most of mine were selected because they'd be usable as weapons, so you have a point there. I always have pens that would be usable as weapons, but I guess I view them as pens first, and among those "what's around you" weapons, so wasn't looking at them as part of that list. As for the firearm, I travel to too many places, with too many different laws. In many, I wouldn't be able to even have it in the seminar room with me (some states restrict concealed weapons at events where people pay to attend), so I'd have to leave it in the car (and sometimes I don't have one, so have no place to leave it). It just ends up being too much of a logistical nightmare to carry consistently, so I made the choice to get used to not having it, rather than expecting it to be there.
 

Gerry Seymour

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No disrespect intended, I can't agree with your post. Having a Sharpie magic marker is perfectly acceptable on an airplane. So is having a pocket of loose change. If one is adept with the cane as a defensive weapon then you can carry one on a plane as well. For improvised weapons we need to collectively think outside the box. You can wear a belt onto an airplane as well. Or a shoe or a magazine. Any of which can be used as an improvised weapon.

Are they as effective as having an edged weapon, firearm, or throwing star? Probably not, but that's why they are improvised to the situation. And since they are likely to fall into the category of use in a 'sterile' environment there is an element of surprise that could work in your favor.
Most of what you're referring to is what I'd put in the "what's around you" category, rather than considering it part of the list I referred to. I typically have a couple of useful metal pens with me, sometimes my cane (if my legs are troublesome), and things like magazines are often nearby.
 

Juany118

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It has been several years since I gave up carrying any of those categories on a regular basis. For those of us who travel by plane, they get taken away from us if we try to carry them on, and a weapon you think you have with you but don't (because you couldn't take it on the plane) is worse than the weapon you don't even think about.

So, I focus on learning and teaching principles that can be applied with what can be found - as you suggest, getting good at finding weapons in what's around you.
Yeah, I remember many moons ago having to leave my kubaton key chain at the security check at PHL. That made me become a huge fan of what are sometimes called tactical pens. I don't get the ones with window breaks or "dna catchers", LED flashlight tips etc, simply a good solid pen that is wide enough and long enough for a full grip (meaning a twist open) that is made out of aircraft grade aluminum. This is the one I currently carry all the time, though it does go into the "pen pouch" inside my back back I use as carry on. UZI Tactical Defender Pen 8 Kubaton (Black) TACPEN-8 - Blade HQ in the pen pouch next to this I will have my my Mont Blanc (with a blue cartridge vs black). The sizes aren't wildly different so the Uzi takes on a less "offensive" appearance. Yeah I try to be sneaky but the Uzi's, being made in China are still decent quality and like $20 so even if it does get taken its not a big loss.

What I like about them is that I can take it to places where you can't bring a knife say the butt end is a kubaton and you can use the tip to puncture if suddenly you think lethal force is justified. Yeah it can be hard to kill someone with a pen, but the nature of it makes it a PAINFUL puncture and it is far more likely your assailant will notice it, even in the middle of a high energy encounter, than a sharp knife and that pain, followed by the blood, can be enough to make the assault stop.

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Dirty Dog

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I do sometimes carry a cane, and most of mine were selected because they'd be usable as weapons, so you have a point there. I always have pens that would be usable as weapons, but I guess I view them as pens first, and among those "what's around you" weapons, so wasn't looking at them as part of that list. As for the firearm, I travel to too many places, with too many different laws. In many, I wouldn't be able to even have it in the seminar room with me (some states restrict concealed weapons at events where people pay to attend), so I'd have to leave it in the car (and sometimes I don't have one, so have no place to leave it). It just ends up being too much of a logistical nightmare to carry consistently, so I made the choice to get used to not having it, rather than expecting it to be there.

They are pens first. That's the main reason we can carry them.
I have a hapkido cane. They're basically the same as any other cane, except the crook is more open, for hooking things.
Most states have reciprocity laws, and my permit is valid. Other states won't honor it, but will issue one of their own. A few don't endorse the US Constitution. There is a small book (big pamphlet?), updated annually, written by a lawyer who specializes in gun laws that let's me stay legal.
 

Gerry Seymour

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They are pens first. That's the main reason we can carry them.
I have a hapkido cane. They're basically the same as any other cane, except the crook is more open, for hooking things.
Most states have reciprocity laws, and my permit is valid. Other states won't honor it, but will issue one of their own. A few don't endorse the US Constitution. There is a small book (big pamphlet?), updated annually, written by a lawyer who specializes in gun laws that let's me stay legal.
As I said, the biggest issue for me isn't reciprocity (when I lived in SC, I had permits that covered nearly all states). The issue is that many states' laws mean me leaving the gun behind most of the day, and sometimes I have no good place to leave it (already checked out of hotel room, not going back to hotel before flight, no rental car). It happens often enough that I just decided to change my habits. Add to that the frequency with which I arrive at the airport too late to check a bag because of scheduling (which, if I have my firearm, means I don't get to go home), and it was just not feasible.
 

Juany118

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They are pens first. That's the main reason we can carry them.
I have a hapkido cane. They're basically the same as any other cane, except the crook is more open, for hooking things.
Most states have reciprocity laws, and my permit is valid. Other states won't honor it, but will issue one of their own. A few don't endorse the US Constitution. There is a small book (big pamphlet?), updated annually, written by a lawyer who specializes in gun laws that let's me stay legal.

You can also be anal retentive like I am and search online for the Attorney General Declarations authorizing reciprocity. I used to work with an officer (since resigned) who didn't even know such reciprocity exists. Be cautious of one thing, some States are cracking down on out of State Residents getting Permits because of a PA case where a person who had their PA revoked applied for a New Hampshire permit because they did not have access to the data that said he couldn't conceal carry. He figured he could still do it, got arrest and conviction was upheld on appeal. States don't want to have to pay to have their people 10 States away testify in multiple Appealate proceedings apparently lol.
 

Juany118

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I always have pens that would be usable as weapons, but I guess I view them as pens first, and among those "what's around you" weapons, so wasn't looking at them as part of that list. .

While I don't study Doug Marcaida's system, this video by him is why I fell in love with Kali. It really changed my view of my environment and a few times it may have saved me pain at work because I used this mindset to keep suspects in particular locations or moved items that would otherwise be ignored. I used to think exactly the same way but this video (as I said in my paranoia post in the FMA forums) illustrates my current mind set.

 

Gerry Seymour

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While I don't study Doug Marcaida's system, this video by him is why I fell in love with Kali. It really changed my view of my environment and a few times it may have saved me pain at work because I used this mindset to keep suspects in particular locations or moved items that would otherwise be ignored. I used to think exactly the same way but this video (as I said in my paranoia post in the FMA forums) illustrates my current mind set.

Let me clarify, it's not that I don't see them as weapons. It's that in replying to the post I was referring to things I carry specifically as weapons, so I didn't count them against that list because they are among the items I referred to as being "what's around you". When I select pens to carry, I normally ensure there's at least one that's a viable weapon (sturdy metal). When I buy a cane, I always think about how it would perform as a weapon (and even have two similar to the Hapkido cane mentioned earlier, bought from Ed Martin of the Bujinkan).
 

Juany118

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Let me clarify, it's not that I don't see them as weapons. It's that in replying to the post I was referring to things I carry specifically as weapons, so I didn't count them against that list because they are among the items I referred to as being "what's around you". When I select pens to carry, I normally ensure there's at least one that's a viable weapon (sturdy metal). When I buy a cane, I always think about how it would perform as a weapon (and even have two similar to the Hapkido cane mentioned earlier, bought from Ed Martin of the Bujinkan).
Oh I figured that but...how do I describe my mind set now? Okay, here we go. Picture walking into a room for the first time and looking at the objects and then having a Robocopesque LCD readout as follows.

Candle stick: hold candles, blunt force trauma.
Pen: writing implement, puncture.
Cordless phone: Hand set: blunt force trauma, charging cable: capture, restraint, strangulation.

It's automatic, almost subconscious, otherwise i would call it paranoia.

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Kiki

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While I don't study Doug Marcaida's system, this video by him is why I fell in love with Kali. It really changed my view of my environment and a few times it may have saved me pain at work because I used this mindset to keep suspects in particular locations or moved items that would otherwise be ignored. I used to think exactly the same way but this video (as I said in my paranoia post in the FMA forums) illustrates my current mind set.


LOL- I came across this video just this weekend.
 

Buka

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As an Airport Police Officer, I just wanted you guys to know, I'm watching you.

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