Unconventional weapons

Discussion in 'General Weapons Discussion' started by BTittel, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. BTittel

    BTittel Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2016
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Kansas
    Sorry if this has been discussed, please link if it has.
    What is the general consensus on using weird improvised "weapons" like rolled up newsome papers ball cap brims, and others? Had anyone used then and are they effective?
     
  2. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,095
    Likes Received:
    2,120
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Michigan
    I've used a shovel. Worked pretty good. I'm alive.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. BTittel

    BTittel Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2016
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Kansas
    Nice? Lol
    • I had a guy threaten me with a 16 ft board....watching him swing--correction--TRY to swing it was so funny.
    Edit: stupid auto correct.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016
  4. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple Senior Master

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    2,694
    Likes Received:
    607
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Location:
    New York
    Never liked the balled up newspaper idea for multiple reasons.
    1: Will you really have time to roll up a newspaper?
    2: If you do, it will be very clear to the person that you plan on using the newspaper to defend yourself. This wouldn't be an issue (it isn't for a shovel, for instance) if it wasn't for
    3: How much do you have to train attacking someone with a newspaper where they wont be willing to just absorb the damage? I've never tried it but I imagine if I defended myself with a newspaper, they would just absorb it and continue stabbing me.
    As for a ball cap brim-I have never heard of that? How would you successfully use it to defend yourself?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. BTittel

    BTittel Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2016
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Kansas
    I had the same thought with the newspaper, but a ball cap brim does hurt pretty bad, but it was used in "play" torturing my brother until he stole it from me and turned it against me. Hit to the ij/ej area could really hurt so we didn't try it. But GB 31/32 really smarts.
     
  6. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple Senior Master

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    2,694
    Likes Received:
    607
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Location:
    New York
    Hm, I can see that. Personally id prefer somedthing either a bit smaller, so I can focus where I'm hitting easier, or something bigger, so it hurts no matter where I hit. But I guess it could be valid.
     
  7. BTittel

    BTittel Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2016
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Kansas
    If you have a ball cap around, roll the bill up to about 1 1/2 inches it creates a focused point when using the very tip of the thing. Use it on intercostal areas, etc. I can see it being useful in a pinch but wouldn't bet my life on it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,095
    Likes Received:
    2,120
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Michigan
    Ok if we're going to be serious about this, first dump the movie crap.

    An improvised or expedient weapon is anything not designed as a weapon but used as one.

    Weapons are generally categorized as stabbing, striking, or defensive.

    Anything you can pick up and move easily/quickly can be a weapon if it can also be used to stab, strike, or defend. The rules are if it works, it works. If it doesn't work, you die. With that in mind, train with improvised weapons as you would train with any other weapon. Use it against a resisting padded partner as you imagine it would work, except for bludgeon or edged metal weapons - practice those against a wooden post.

    If it doesn't work, move on.

    Personally, I have tried and discarded popular myths such as using car keys in a fist with the keys sticking out between the fingers. Can be made to work, but first one has to be able to close distance and punch correctly, which few do.

    I might consider a rolled up magazine or newspaper defensively against a bludgeon or a knife, but things would probably be moving too fast for me to do that.

    I mentioned a shovel because that works if you have one. It stabs, it bludgeons, it cuts with a knife edge, and it blocks defensively. Look up eku or oar kata to see what you could do with a shovel or a rake, etc.

    Consider also escrima and other stick arts, it's often not too hard to find a stick.

    FYI, if you're going to punch with a rolled up magazine, don't be Jason Bourne. Punch with the gripped end, not the other end, like punching with the butt end of a knife, when the blade is held down the inside of your arm. Otherwise it won't work at all. You'll see.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. ShawnP

    ShawnP Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2016
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    43
    i personally wouldnt bother with a Newspaper, but rather a Magazine with a bound edge would make for a better tool.
     
  10. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    6,006
    Likes Received:
    924
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Improvised weapons are just that… improvised. Can they work? Yeah. But the major consideration is that they are non-weaponry items pressed into service by necessity… and that necessity (as well as the skill and knowledge of the user) define whether or not they are "effective". In other words, this question can't be answered… as there's no parameters or way of qualifying a response.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. Rayrob

    Rayrob Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    18
    An ex colleague of mine was seriously wounded by a guy swinging at him with a rolled up newspaper just two days prior to his wedding day.

    Unfortunately for my friend the guy had wrapped it around a rather large combination spanner.

    The poor guy had to wear make up for the wedding photographs. The make up didn't conceal the large lumps all over his head and face. Those photos were a sight to behold.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    6,542
    Likes Received:
    3,776
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Maui
    My wife fancies an old fashioned hatpin. At least in the winter, not enough clothing in the warm months to carry it easily. She's pretty good with it, too.

    I grew up in the projects. We liked rocks.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    5,035
    Likes Received:
    1,393
    Trophy Points:
    263
    My guess is that finding a newspaper would be rare, and if you did find one then there are better objects in the same area that would work better.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. moonhill99

    moonhill99 Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2015
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Using a sword even short sword, pipe,crowbar or hammer would be better than newspaper.

    The problem is the bad guy will take the hit of the newspaper and run up to you and grab it from you.

    As for using a baseball bat. I don't really like that idea at all because lot of people miss the target when swinging a baseball bat. And because the baseball bat is really big it makes it very easy for the bad guy to take it away from you.

    Some thing like stick, hanbo or Eskrima would be way better than a baseball bat.

    Taking Filipino martial arts like Eskrima would make it very hard for bad guy to take it away from you.

    It just that if you use baseball bat most likely the bad guy would take it away from you.

    Take some sword training and use sword or take Eskrima.
     
  15. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    13,489
    Likes Received:
    2,711
    Trophy Points:
    263
    A guy tried to threaten me once with a muffler. But I was working with a dog handler at the time. So he didn't really get very far.
     
  16. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    6,006
    Likes Received:
    924
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    What on earth are you talking about?

    I mean… I don't even know where to start with this, but… what on earth are you talking about? None of that has anything to do with the thread, the post you quoted, or reality itself… so… huh? Using a short sword?!?

    Dude…
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Blindside

    Blindside Senior Master

    • Founding Member
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2001
    Messages:
    4,914
    Likes Received:
    556
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Kennewick, WA
    I teach Kali, I'd be perfectly happy with a bat as an improvised weapon, happier than I would if I was carrying my training bag around an had a rattan stick. Of course I have all kinds of nastier options if I had my training bag with me that I would use before a bat or a rattan stick.
     
  18. Kong Soo Do

    Kong Soo Do IKSDA Director

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,364
    Likes Received:
    317
    Trophy Points:
    143
    There are two considerations; First consideration is the have with you weapons that you train with and aren't afraid to use. You should have on your person a defensive weapon such as a firearm, edged weapon, blunt weapon (such as a kubaton) or chemical weapon (such as O.C. spray). Preferably one from each category.

    Secondly, there may be times when you can't have those weapons on your person or in close proximity. But there are always alternatives. For example, perhaps you can't carry a kubaton on you (for some reason such as being in a court house or secure portion of an airport or even on a plane) but you can carry a Sharpie magic marker. It can fulfill the same purpose and effect. There are various types of keychain attachments that don't look like edged brass knuckles but can be used as such. One looks like a kitty cat and can be picked up at a flea market. Throwing loose change or keys in the face of the attacker (or dirt, sand, gravel or any loose objects that can be grabbed and thrown) can provide an opportunity for counter-attack or escape. If you're in the parking lot it isn't hard to snap off a car antenna (if you can find a car that has one). Of course if your in a parking lot you may have a rock, small chunk of concrete, broken glass, shopping cart or some other object laying around that can be used as an improvised weapon. If you're in a store then you've likely got an unlimited supply of projectile objects such as cans and other items that can inflict damage. How about your belt? In your own home you've got ash trays, butcher knives, lamps, glass in picture frames etc. Anyone still have a land line phone with a cord? You don't have to be a 20th degree black belt to put the base of a lamp upside someone's head. Or put a piece of furniture between you and them while hurling large, heavy and perhaps pointy objects at them. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to pick up a heavy object, smash a window or mirror and select an appropriate shard of glass. How about a chair?

    The point is that a good SD course (or SD oriented MA) should develop in you the ability to quickly size up your area and the potential weapons available. As you go about your day look around at the objects in your immediate area. What could you throw, slash with, hit with, stab with, distract with? With the proper mind set you are most likely in an environment with a veritable arsenal of lethal objects.
     
  19. frank raud

    frank raud Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,180
    Likes Received:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    88
    Location:
    Ottawa, ON
     
  20. Guthrie

    Guthrie Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    In my hayday...I carried a fishing line with a sinker weight at the end, and a loop to slip around my finger. It was definitely a deterent when flung into the skull of an attacker.

    I still carry one today...but only in unfamiliar events within large crowds.

    Cops only seen it as a fishing tackle and never a weapon.
     

Share This Page

Search tags for this page

unconventional martial arts